As a lifelong Tory I'm disgusted with the Tory party As a lifelong Tory I'm disgusted with the Tory party - Page 3
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  1. #21

    Lord of the Vectras

    VectraMan - scorchio!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlHoot View Post
    Well that's a bit rich, considering Germany itself ended up as a "failed state" both after WW1 and after WW2!
    So they're ideally placed to comment on what happens when the people vote for nationalists...

    The UK doesn't seem to have learned from history.
    Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

  2. #22

    More fingers than teeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    ... the current banana-republic chaos just prefigures the broad decline of the West in relation to a resurgent Asia.
    I remember people used to say the same in the 1970s in relation to a resurgent Japan!

    All countries have their ups and downs, and just because the UK has hit a few bumps in the road recently it won't mean we'll be down and out for centuries!
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  3. #23

    Better than AtW

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlHoot View Post
    I remember people used to say the same in the 1970s in relation to a resurgent Japan!

    All countries have their ups and downs, and just because the UK has hit a few bumps in the road recently it won't mean we'll be down and out for centuries!
    Anyone who travels much will realise the UK is looking distinctly 2nd rate in many areas and has been for a while.
    Dirty streets, terrible roads, some of the most deprived areas anywhere.
    Outside London, the country isn't at all a global player, but looks like what it is: a has-been.
    Hard Brexit now!
    #prayfornodeal

  4. #24

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

    northernladyuk is a fount of knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Tripe. He's free to argue for the benefits of EU membership, but he isn't free to argue that a democratic process should be ignored (without significant pushback) because it undermines democracy itself (about which he clearly doesn't give two figs). This isn't about freedom of speech, it's about the outcome of a democratic process. The European Research Group can whine all they want, but they aren't disrespecting the outcome of a recent referendum. By your logic w/r to "ignoring the original referendum", every democratic vote ignores the result of a previous democratic vote that reached a different conclusion, which is self-evidently facile. Heseltine and others are extremists because they propose to ignore the outcome of the referendum, not seek to interpret that outcome in a particular way (means of departure) or to argue for the benefits of EU membership in general, both of which are perfectly legitimate.
    I would agree that the EU referendum result must be respected, unless of course there is a subsequent referendum which reverses it.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  5. #25

    My post count is Majestic

    vetran is always on top

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectraMan View Post
    Heseltine on the telly yesterday made the point that he's been listening to Brexiteers trying to get their way for over 30 years, and that to argue for what you believe is right for the country isn't wrong, or undemocratic, but is exactly what politics is. The "shut up you lost" cry of the Brexiteers certainly isn't respecting democracy.

    To be a Brexiteer means ignoring the original referendum, and ignoring the fact that every government the people elected since the the UK joined has been pro-EU (with the exception of the weak and wobbly one elected the other day). The danger you describe is exactly what's already happened. The extremists have seized control; moderates are now dismissed as "undemocratic".

    I'm shocked that I voted for Corbyn. I'd still rather have the centre-right Pro-EU Cameron government with 3 years left on their term. But that's where Brexitism has led us.
    Unfortunately subsequent governments refused to ask the people when the common market morphed into the EU superstate. There was a clear demand to do so. We tried to discuss change and they told us to get stuffed. We decided to leave and they intend to make us suffer. Sounds exactly like an abusive controlling relationship to me. Stone the ex wife to stop the rest of the Hareem rebelling.

    You know we have been in the EU for a few decades? We have fought longer wars.

    Obviously America, Australia, New Zealand etc. should be added to our foreign aid recipients because not being part of the EU makes countries third world.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  6. #26

    More fingers than teeth

    BlasterBates - scorchio!

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    America is in NAFTA
    Australia and New Zealnd are in ASEAN.

    The UK is in ...errr

    oh hang on it's not a member of any trading block, it must be a Third world country.

    I'm alright Jack

  7. #27

    TPAFKAk2p2

    mudskipper is always on top

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Anyone who travels much will realise the UK is looking distinctly 2nd rate in many areas and has been for a while.
    Dirty streets, terrible roads, some of the most deprived areas anywhere.
    Outside London, the country isn't at all a global player, but looks like what it is: a has-been.
    Austerity, innit.

  8. #28

    More fingers than teeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Anyone who travels much will realise the UK is looking distinctly 2nd rate in many areas and has been for a while.
    Dirty streets, terrible roads, some of the most deprived areas anywhere.
    Outside London, the country isn't at all a global player, but looks like what it is: a has-been.
    You could say the same about large urban areas of the US, such as Detroit or Chicago.
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  9. #29

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

    northernladyuk is a fount of knowledge

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlHoot View Post
    You could say the same about large urban areas of the US, such as Detroit or Chicago.
    Is that your target destination for the UK?
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  10. #30

    Godlike

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    I would agree that the EU referendum result must be respected, unless of course there is a subsequent referendum which reverses it.
    Sure. If a party secures a mandate for that, how could any democrat argue otherwise? Anything is possible, but it currently seems very unlikely, given that neither major part is advocating that, or likely to do so for many years.

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