Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS lie on bus admits leaving EU could be an error

[AtW]

Not sure if misleading in advertising = fraudulent?

McDonalds – “I’m Lovin’ It” <---- usually it's more roadside services "i'm dreading it" but too hungry to drive anymore

KFC – “Finger Lickin’ Good” <------ KFC usually leaves your fingers covered in yucky grease, most people don't lick their fingers after a KFC.

Carlsberg – “Probably the Best Beer in the World” <------- Debatable

Relative terms, matters of opinion.

Now if the Leave crowd had a message on the bus: "Leaving EU is probably going to be good" then it would be a somewhat different matter than outright lie about £350 mln given to NHS.

[jamesbrown]

Let up start with WWIII and the end of western political civilisation. I don't remember those. Linky?

WWIII was Hamface. Serried rows of white headstones (British Museum IIRC). End of civilisation was Tusk (don't recall the event). Sorry, political civilisation.

[MeMeMe1966]

From wiki.

There is no transfer of money from the European Commission to the UK Treasury involved; the effect of the rebate is to reduce the size of the UK's payments.[

Then it was a lie. I stand corrected.

I'm still slightly uneasy about the claims that this lie is what swung the vote. I think people are used to being "advertised at" and take these slogans with a pinch of salt. To say that the people who voted leave "were lied to and poor them and had they only known the truth" (I'm paraphrasing) is assuming that these people are fresh out of some jungle and have not been desensitised to the over-the-top claims made in advertising on signs in shops, on TV, billboards, etc.

I did vote remain but I'm more angry at the shocking campaign run by the remain team then by any advertising put out by the Brexit brigade. How did they think the optics would work when Bob Geldoff challenges fishermen in the Thames? Or when BMW writes to their staff ahead of a free and fair election? The bus was a lie but I still think the remain campaign snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by creating the perception of an "underdog" side in the minds of the electorate.

[Cirrus]

car manufacturers now warning of mass layoffs next year

Where did you hear that

Car plants tend to be on multi-year plans. It will be quite a few years before production can be moved.

The UK market is presently down which will cut the number of shifts. But that might just be cyclical - sales have been high until recently.

[original PM]

Then it was a lie. I stand corrected.

I'm still slightly uneasy about the claims that this lie is what swung the vote. I think people are used to being "advertised at" and take these slogans with a pinch of salt. To say that the people who voted leave "were lied to and poor them and had they only known the truth" (I'm paraphrasing) is assuming that these people are fresh out of some jungle and have not been desensitised to the over-the-top claims made in advertising on signs in shops, on TV, billboards, etc.

I did vote remain but I'm more angry at the shocking campaign run by the remain team then by any advertising put out by the Brexit brigade. How did they think the optics would work when Bob Geldoff challenges fishermen in the Thames? Or when BMW writes to their staff ahead of a free and fair election? The bus was a lie but I still think the remain campaign snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by creating the perception of an "underdog" side in the minds of the electorate.

If you look at it in a different light it is quite an interesting proposition.

We have been part of the 'EU' in its various guises since 1973 and on the whole it has been a benefit to be a part of a large group of like minded people with similar outlooks and aspirations however over the last 5 years and possibly longer the EU has been growing into a political movement which no one really wanted.

And over the years rules and regulations - most of them good for most people in general - have grown.

However this is a democratic body and as such we have the right to leave.

So for the good of the people of the EU we have decided to test exactly how democratic this body is be exercising the simple right of leaving them.

The world has changed since 1973 - the huge increase in global communications, 24/7 always on the go availability and and the hugely beneficial breaking down of borders has meant that next decade needs to be looked from a different perspective.

And so we need to say good bye to those comfy things - and we need to say - in 2025 what is the great Britain I want to live in?

And then go and make it.

[Mordac]

"One of the masterminds behind the Brexit vote has performed an astonishing U-turn by admitting that leaving the EU may be “an error”.
"Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director, described the referendum as a “dumb idea”

Should we be calling him a 'mastermind' then?


We really must be the laughing stock of the world
This country gets all it deserves.
Complete plonkers playing games at the top and enough useful idiots to exploit, as this forum shows.

You should read Tim Shipman's book (All Out War) before making wild assumptions, there was a lot going on behind the scenes that we never really got to hear about. For example, Cummings was basically a "gun for hire" and he was hired because he was the best. He had "reservations" about the EU, but would have happily worked for the other side (and by some accounts nearly did) if they'd got there first. Cameron dithered, so he went to the Leave side - but it was just a job. At a handsome rate, mind, but we all have to earn a crust.
But yes, we should call him a mastermind, because despite project fear, and mutinous Tory backbenchers, he led the winning team, against all the odds.

[chopper]

Let up start with WWIII and the end of western political civilisation. I don't remember those. Linky?

David Cameron: Brexit could lead to Europe descending into war

Juncker also made the claim in December 2016 in response to the Italian referendum and to push his European Army agenda.
Jean-Claude Juncker: EU boss predicts populism will lead to war in Europe | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

[Mordac]

Relative terms, matters of opinion.

Now if the Leave crowd had a message on the bus: "Leaving EU is probably going to be good" then it would be a somewhat different matter than outright lie about £350 mln given to NHS.

Even Farage disowned that statement, and most of the Leave team weren't happy about it, but once Osbourne and Co. created their Domesday Scenario, everything was back on the table. "Leaving the EU is probably going to be good" is not as punchy as "we could spend that £350m on the NHS", is it? This was probably the dirtiest campaign ever fought in the UK, and was never going to be won by the side which played nicest. It was only ever going to be won by the side which played smartest. Sorry to break it to you, but politics is a grubby game, and no-one ever votes for the nice people. Not that anyone in politics is actually nice.

[darmstadt]

Where did you hear that

Car plants tend to be on multi-year plans. It will be quite a few years before production can be moved.

The UK market is presently down which will cut the number of shifts. But that might just be cyclical - sales have been high until recently.

There was an article in the FT a few days ago: https://www.ft.com/content/0c3427b2-...4aa8b?mhq5j=e1

But basically investment in the UK car industry has fallen to just £322m in the first half of 2017, in a sign that companies are delaying or cancelling spending ahead of the UK leaving the EU. Last year £1.66bn was invested in the auto sector, more than 30 per cent down from £2.5bn in 2015...But investment looks to have fallen even further in the first six months of this year...If the same levels of investment are seen in the second half of the year, it would bring total annual spend on the UK car industry to just £644m — nearly one-quarter of the amount invested two years ago and a sharper fall than many in the industry had expected...output of UK cars had fallen almost 10 per cent in May compared with last year, the second straight month of year-on-year decline...

[original PM]

There was an article in the FT a few days ago: https://www.ft.com/content/0c3427b2-...4aa8b?mhq5j=e1

But basically investment in the UK car industry has fallen to just £322m in the first half of 2017, in a sign that companies are delaying or cancelling spending ahead of the UK leaving the EU. Last year £1.66bn was invested in the auto sector, more than 30 per cent down from £2.5bn in 2015...But investment looks to have fallen even further in the first six months of this year...If the same levels of investment are seen in the second half of the year, it would bring total annual spend on the UK car industry to just £644m — nearly one-quarter of the amount invested two years ago and a sharper fall than many in the industry had expected...output of UK cars had fallen almost 10 per cent in May compared with last year, the second straight month of year-on-year decline...

So it was going down prior to 2016?

Of course it was why invest in the UK when you can invest in the old Eastern block countries for a huge reduction in wages.

Or just employ immigrants for substantially less than the locals.

It's a race to the bottom and I'm out.