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Jacob Rees-Mogg announces baby Sixtus

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    #21
    Originally posted by The_Equalizer View Post
    "The the many". Okay then.
    Except it is consistent with other English loan words such as alcohol where al is the definitive article. We don't say the the cohol do we?
    But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition. Pliny the younger

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      #22
      Originally posted by The_Equalizer View Post
      Repeating yourself doesn't mean you're correct.
      No, but I am.

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        #23
        Originally posted by Gibbon View Post
        Except it is consistent with other English loan words such as alcohol where al is the definitive article. We don't say the the cohol do we?
        I must be a traditionalist:

        "Usage

        Hoi is the Greek word for the, and the phrase hoi polloi means ‘the many.’ This has led some traditionalists to insist that hoi polloi should not be used in English with the, since that would be to state the word the twice. But, once established in English, expressions such as hoi polloi are typically treated as fixed units and are subject to the rules and conventions of English. Evidence shows that use with the has now become an accepted part of standard English usage: they kept to themselves, away from the hoi polloi (rather than away from hoi polloi). Hoi polloi is sometimes used incorrectly to mean ‘upper class’—that is, the exact opposite of its normal meaning. It seems likely that the confusion arose by association with the similar-sounding but otherwise unrelated word hoity-toity"

        hoi polloi - Oxford Dictionary

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          #24
          Originally posted by The_Equalizer View Post
          I must be a traditionalist:

          "Usage

          Hoi is the Greek word for the,
          hoi polloi - Oxford Dictionary
          Feck me, an article talking about archaic usage of the definitive article can't get theirs right. Hoi is a Greek word for the, there being 24 variations of it depending on gender and declension.
          But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition. Pliny the younger

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by The_Equalizer View Post
            I must be a traditionalist:

            "Usage

            Hoi is the Greek word for the, and the phrase hoi polloi means ‘the many.’ This has led some traditionalists to insist that hoi polloi should not be used in English with the, since that would be to state the word the twice. But, once established in English, expressions such as hoi polloi are typically treated as fixed units and are subject to the rules and conventions of English. Evidence shows that use with the has now become an accepted part of standard English usage: they kept to themselves, away from the hoi polloi (rather than away from hoi polloi). Hoi polloi is sometimes used incorrectly to mean ‘upper class’—that is, the exact opposite of its normal meaning. It seems likely that the confusion arose by association with the similar-sounding but otherwise unrelated word hoity-toity"

            hoi polloi - Oxford Dictionary
            It is more precise to define your view as prescriptive grammar than traditionalist. As a Latin graduate, I don't much care for prescriptive grammar, as it attempts to apply rules from highly structured languages such as Latin into English, which is much more flexible. Other annoying prescriptive grammar rules include the forbidding of split infinitives and prepositions at the end of sentences. That is the kind of English up with which I will not put.

            I'm not saying that it is wrong to omit 'the' if you choose, but there is no basis for correcting use of 'the'. Prescriptive grammar has no standing above other descriptive grammar.

            Presumably, you would insist on removing the word 'the' from the sentence: 'I brought the alcohol to the last picnic, so this time it is your turn.'

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              #26
              Originally posted by northernladyuk View Post
              It is more precise to define your view as prescriptive grammar than traditionalist. As a Latin graduate, I don't much care for prescriptive grammar, as it attempts to apply rules from highly structured languages such as Latin into English, which is much more flexible. Other annoying prescriptive grammar rules include the forbidding of split infinitives and prepositions at the end of sentences. That is the kind of English up with which I will not put.

              I'm not saying that it is wrong to omit 'the' if you choose, but there is no basis for correcting use of 'the'. Prescriptive grammar has no standing above other descriptive grammar.

              Presumably, you would insist on removing the word 'the' from the sentence: 'I brought the alcohol to the last picnic, so this time it is your turn.'
              If only you'd stated that in your first reply.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by Gibbon View Post
                Feck me, an article talking about archaic usage of the definitive article can't get theirs right. Hoi is a Greek word for the, there being 24 variations of it depending on gender and declension.
                And number, you cretin.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by The_Equalizer View Post
                  If only you'd stated that in your first reply.
                  Where's the fun in that?

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by northernladyuk View Post
                    And number, you cretin.
                    Accepted
                    But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition. Pliny the younger

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by northernladyuk View Post
                      Where's the fun in that?
                      Yeah, but latin grad!

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