Project Management, do we need it? Project Management, do we need it? - Page 11
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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    OK, say it's a regulatory deadline. Project X has to be in place, tested, working, signed off by the regulator as compliant within a set period or your client can no longer operate. Are you going to say "nah, mate, I'll do it in my own time at my own pace and if we get shut down, well that's not my problem"?
    I wouldn't say that.

    I was given a fixed deadline by a client, basically it was lights out if the deadline was not reached. I wanted their venture to be a success and told them I did not think it was possible to meet the deadline. But I could do my best to deliver a sub-standard product that would have to be re-written properly. I then recruited a team of contractors and told them the deal, paid well but it would be all hands to the deck. We all then worked long hours including weekends without holidays and produced a fairly crappy product that worked. It was damn close but I was always honest and upfront with the client.
    Last edited by woohoo; 28th September 2017 at 16:08.

  2. #102

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    >25 years in the business, most sectors (software houses, City banks, consultancy, HEOR consultancy) in many sort sof roles (dev, PM, manager, consultant, tech lead) and I've come to the following conclusion:

    The 80-20 rule applies:
    80% of PMs are poor - in that group some are piss poor, some actively deduct value and are a hindrance, some are chancers, some are fakes.
    This accounts for the documented failure of most UK public sector IT projects.

    Of the 20% who are competent, about 5% are worth their weight in gold.
    What do these 5% have in common? : loads of experience in their sector, always a high EQ as well as IQ, politically savvy, quite often superior technical ability.
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  3. #103

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    Default PMs are not good or bad; just lucky or unlucky

    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    This accounts for the documented failure of most UK public sector IT projects.
    No.

    As Fred Brookes taught us 30 years ago, most projects fail because of a lack of real time. Or as Woozy sees it - over optimistic planning/estimates/resourcing.

    Thousands of studies have shown that, on average, projects are pitched at a planned speed that cannot be achieved except by non-average teams. In my experience the PM rarely has much practical influence on the timescales, and limited influence on resourcing (eg where vendors are involved or your firm's Shanghai team etc).

    On average, projects fail (ie are late and/or over-budget and/or are scope-reduced), and that's because they are unrealistic from the first day, not because the PM is good or bad. PMs help manage the failure and often can conspire with others to make the whole thing looks half decent.
    "Don't part with your illusions; when they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" Mark Twain

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
    No.

    As Fred Brookes taught us 30 years ago, most projects fail because of a lack of real time. Or as Woozy sees it - over optimistic planning/estimates/resourcing.

    Thousands of studies have shown that, on average, projects are pitched at a planned speed that cannot be achieved except by non-average teams. In my experience the PM rarely has much practical influence on the timescales, and limited influence on resourcing (eg where vendors are involved or your firm's Shanghai team etc).

    On average, projects fail (ie are late and/or over-budget and/or are scope-reduced), and that's because they are unrealistic from the first day, not because the PM is good or bad. PMs help manage the failure and often can conspire with others to make the whole thing looks half decent.
    Hey Clitrus, nice to see you chiming in. Lots of generalizations, no links or detail.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
    No.

    As Fred Brookes taught us 30 years ago, most projects fail because of a lack of real time. Or as Woozy sees it - over optimistic planning/estimates/resourcing.

    Thousands of studies have shown that, on average, projects are pitched at a planned speed that cannot be achieved except by non-average teams. In my experience the PM rarely has much practical influence on the timescales, and limited influence on resourcing (eg where vendors are involved or your firm's Shanghai team etc).

    On average, projects fail (ie are late and/or over-budget and/or are scope-reduced), and that's because they are unrealistic from the first day, not because the PM is good or bad. PMs help manage the failure and often can conspire with others to make the whole thing looks half decent.
    The Mythical Man Month is IMHO the best book on PM ever written, so I agree. I've probably bought about 5 or 6 copies because I always give one away to people who need it.
    I agree with you about project failure and real time. problem is the people who decide that sort of thing have not got a clue usually... but that varies from sector to sector.
    But the best PMs are influencers too, not just technocrats.
    some things are out of control however.

    Never worked in the public sector though, does seem full of numpties,so perhaps the failure is a bit of both.
    Last edited by sasguru; 28th September 2017 at 19:47.
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  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    Hey Clitrus ...
    Well at least you didn't call him a Kunt.
    Hard Brexit now!
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  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Well at least you didn't call him a Kunt.
    my typing doh! just a slip of the finger, as they say.

  8. #108

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    Default Some way to go yet, Glasshopper

    Quote Originally Posted by woohoo View Post
    Hey Clitrus, nice to see you chiming in. Lots of generalizations, no links or detail.
    It's like 'your bottom points downwards'. It's like 'do one legged ducks swim round in circles'

    You're a highly paid consultant but right now you actually seem only on the early stages of a voyage of discovery. But at least you're thinking about these things.

    As a kick starter try

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapid-Devel...id+development
    "Don't part with your illusions; when they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" Mark Twain

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