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Different question about business travel - where is home?

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    #11
    Originally posted by Fred Bloggs View Post
    All becomes clear when you apply the "wholly and exclusively in the course of business" test.
    Wholly, exclusively AND necessarily.

    Comment


      #12
      Originally posted by malvolio View Post
      I don't see it as a grey area at all. For one thing your home location is normally your registered business address or your home if you use an accommodation address, unless you have a discrete office you pay for. Multiply offices is not an option and if you tried that then the Ramsay principle would apply and HMRC would simply discount all of them.

      As for claimable or not, that's been answered; the "wholly, entirely and exclusively" rules makes the distinction. It's up to you as the director to make the decision and to justify it if challenged, but the principles you apply are very clearly labelled.

      BTW, pissing about with expenses rules to make a little extra is why they have been specifically excluded form IR35-caught gigs. It wouldn't take too much to widen that restriction further...
      Interestingly enough my client may well be willing to pay for the flights even if I could not claim them personally.
      Would I have to declare a BIK on my P11d in this scenario?
      See You Next Tuesday

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by Lance View Post
        Interestingly enough my client may well be willing to pay for the flights even if I could not claim them personally.
        Would I have to declare a BIK on my P11d in this scenario?
        Sigh...

        No. It's invoiced income for your company to offset it's costs or they pay it directly themselves. It should not be a personal expense.
        Blog? What blog...?

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by Lance View Post
          Interestingly enough my client may well be willing to pay for the flights even if I could not claim them personally.
          Would I have to declare a BIK on my P11d in this scenario?
          In my mind, no it's not BIK.
          If a client pays for your flights, the client is paying for your flights. I'd suggest getting them to book them, though that way nothing is going through your company account or your personal account.
          …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

          Comment


            #15
            Different question about business travel - where is home?

            Originally posted by malvolio View Post
            Sigh...

            No. It's invoiced income for your company to offset it's costs or they pay it directly themselves. It should not be a personal expense.
            Originally posted by WTFH View Post
            In my mind, no it's not BIK.
            If a client pays for your flights, the client is paying for your flights. I'd suggest getting them to book them, though that way nothing is going through your company account or your personal account.


            You misunderstand what I’m saying.

            If it’s not a genuine business expense and I paid personally I can’t claim it.

            If it’s not a genuine business expense and myco paid for it then I either need to pay it back or declare as a BIK. - I think that’s right.

            If it’s not a genuine business expense and my client pays for it, would it not surely still be a BIK, albeit one that HMRC are far less likely to be interested in?
            See You Next Tuesday

            Comment


              #16
              Originally posted by Lance View Post
              You misunderstand what I’m saying.

              If it’s not a genuine business expense and I paid personally I can’t claim it.

              If it’s not a genuine business expense and myco paid for it then I either need to pay it back or declare as a BIK. - I think that’s right.

              If it’s not a genuine business expense and my client pays for it, would it not surely still be a BIK, albeit one that HMRC are far less likely to be interested in?
              My thinking is that if the client pays for it directly then the client thinks it is a genuine business expense for them.
              Is it a BIK if it's not affecting you or your company's finance?
              If HMRC were interested, it would be interest in the client's accounts, rather than yours. If they picked the client's accounts apart and found that the client had bought you a plane ticket, then they might come to you, but this is where it gets fuzzy.
              If, for example, you are staying away from home over a weekend at the client's request, and they pay for your weekend activities, maybe car rental, etc, because they consider it a reasonable way to treat people, then is it a benefit to you, or savings for the client by not flying you home, etc?
              …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by Lance View Post
                You misunderstand what I’m saying.

                If it’s not a genuine business expense and I paid personally I can’t claim it.

                If it’s not a genuine business expense and myco paid for it then I either need to pay it back or declare as a BIK. - I think that’s right.

                If it’s not a genuine business expense and my client pays for it, would it not surely still be a BIK, albeit one that HMRC are far less likely to be interested in?
                No I think you misunderstand. You do not have (or should not have) business expenditure personally. Let YourCo pay for such things directly since that is what is there for, among other things. Then the whole question of BIKs becomes moot under most circumstances.

                What you have said is right, but you're starting from the wrong end. Who is incurring the cost? For business purposes, it's not you but YourCo.
                Blog? What blog...?

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                  My thinking is that if the client pays for it directly then the client thinks it is a genuine business expense for them.
                  Is it a BIK if it's not affecting you or your company's finance?
                  If HMRC were interested, it would be interest in the client's accounts, rather than yours. If they picked the client's accounts apart and found that the client had bought you a plane ticket, then they might come to you, but this is where it gets fuzzy.
                  If, for example, you are staying away from home over a weekend at the client's request, and they pay for your weekend activities, maybe car rental, etc, because they consider it a reasonable way to treat people, then is it a benefit to you, or savings for the client by not flying you home, etc?
                  This is pretty much what I was thinking.

                  I would consider it taking the piss to claim off the client anyway. They pay for my travel and I’m pleased with that.

                  Likewise I’d not claim it from my own company as it’s just a red flag IMO.
                  See You Next Tuesday

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by Lance View Post
                    If I fly to and from London to visit client's site that's business travel. As are the hotels, meals etc.
                    Agreed.

                    If I fly to London, do the visits, and then fly to visit family in the alps, could that (flight to alps) count, not as a business trip, but as the return home trip (and a genuine business expense)?
                    The leg of the journey to London is wholly, exclusively and necessary for business and so claimable. The onwards journey to see family is not. You are not returning to your normal place of work (your actual home). It's clearly a personal journey so not claimable.

                    If I then fly home from the alps that's most definitely personal.
                    Agreed.

                    If I fly to London to visit the client from the alps then that's business?
                    Disagree. You need to get home from visiting your family anyway so any cost of returning from abroad would not be wholly, exclusively or necessary for business. However I would say that by flying back to London first to meet clients, the extra expense incurred in getting you home from London (as you would have gone home directly otherwise) *is* claimable.

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Originally posted by Lance View Post
                      Interestingly enough my client may well be willing to pay for the flights even if I could not claim them personally.
                      Would I have to declare a BIK on my P11d in this scenario?
                      If the client pays for it themselves directly, there's nothing to declare AFAIK.

                      If they reimburse YourCo, then you need to invoice them for the cost so it becomes taxable income for YourCo. It may be a BIK if you reimburse yourself that amount from YourCo.

                      Comment

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