• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Plus ça change....

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #11
    I'm impressed, reasoned debate in General...

    Well done (are you all feeling ok?)
    Do what thou wilt

    Comment


      #12
      Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
      I put it down to venal incompetence - the greed, cowardice and stupidity of politicians.

      Yes, but that is quite different from saying that immigration is bad and immigrants are the cause of the woes. Or even that refugees and asylum seekers are.

      Immigration - cause in fact.
      Government incompetence - proximate cause.

      It's like "All car accidents are caused by cars. Let's ban cars". The existence of cars is the cause in fact. The proximate causes are - drunk drivers, aggressive drivers, etc.

      The racism in immigration discussions is in the assumption - voiced regularly here, and seen in Max's leaflet - that immigration is the proximate cause. It really isn't.
      Does this country need to or can it accept an extra 250k people per year on top of normal expected population growth without negatively impacting the lives of the existing citizens of the UK?

      If the answer is no then we need to stop/hugely restrict immigration - matters not whether they are from the EU or not.

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
        I put it down to venal incompetence - the greed, cowardice and stupidity of politicians.

        Yes, but that is quite different from saying that immigration is bad and immigrants are the cause of the woes. Or even that refugees and asylum seekers are.

        Immigration - cause in fact.
        Government incompetence - proximate cause.

        It's like "All car accidents are caused by cars. Let's ban cars". The existence of cars is the cause in fact. The proximate causes are - drunk drivers, aggressive drivers, etc.

        The racism in immigration discussions is in the assumption - voiced regularly here, and seen in Max's leaflet - that immigration is the proximate cause. It really isn't.
        You started saying nothing had changed and it was due to racism. I pointed out that the figures from today describe the same situation Mosely & Enoch predicted would result from the much lower level of immigration the UK was experiencing. 50 years later and we have had massive immigration and have these problems and you try to say uncontrolled immigration isn't the base cause.

        There is no racism here, but you do like to smear, not discuss. Its a problem that will see the rise of the far right if its not controlled, I have no wish to see that.
        If you remove the unmanaged immigration all these issues disappear.

        As I say sell uncontrolled immigration to the population as part of your manifesto.
        Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by original PM View Post
          Does this country need to or can it accept an extra 250k people per year on top of normal expected population growth without negatively impacting the lives of the existing citizens of the UK?

          If the answer is no then we need to stop/hugely restrict immigration - matters not whether they are from the EU or not.
          Blooming closet racist!
          Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

          Comment


            #15
            Originally posted by original PM View Post
            Does this country need to or can it accept an extra 250k people per year on top of normal expected population growth without negatively impacting the lives of the existing citizens of the UK?

            If the answer is no then we need to stop/hugely restrict immigration - matters not whether they are from the EU or not.
            The answer is yes.

            I have a number of friends' and acquaintances who emigrated here, then fecked off elsewhere. A few took a British citizen with them when they left and have gone on to produce more British citizens, who we won't have to pay to get educated and skilled up.

            Also everytime myself or anyone with an EU passport leaves the UK we aren't counted out. So it takes a good year or so before it is realised we are no longer in the UK.
            "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

            Comment


              #16
              Originally posted by original PM View Post
              Does this country need to or can it accept an extra 250k people per year on top of normal expected population growth
              Probably.
              without negatively impacting the lives of the existing citizens of the UK?
              Well obviously that's what's wanted. It's the hard-of-thinking who presume that lack of government planning means we don't need immigrants. What we need is not less immigration, but a more competent government.
              Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
                The answer is yes.

                I have a number of friends' and acquaintances who emigrated here, then fecked off elsewhere. A few took a British citizen with them when they left and have gone on to produce more British citizens, who we won't have to pay to get educated and skilled up.

                Also everytime myself or anyone with an EU passport leaves the UK we aren't counted out. So it takes a good year or so before it is realised we are no longer in the UK.
                They count departing UK citizens as well as previous immigrants leaving, its been that way for years so a delay in counting people out has little effect. This is a net figure, these are extras, they are appearing, they have appeared on a perch......

                It is 250K - 500K new people appearing needing homes, hospitals & schools each year. As we aren't building them we are in trouble.
                Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
                  Probably.
                  Well obviously that's what's wanted. It's the hard-of-thinking who presume that lack of government planning means we don't need immigrants. What we need is not less immigration, but a more competent government.
                  OK explain why for the hard of thinking why we need immigration at the level we are experiencing.

                  Almost everyone will concede that we need some highly skilled migrants (i.e. world renowned experts not cheap IT people with forged qualifications) I would suggest we need say 100k of those plus we can expect a few family members joining previous immigrants say 100,000. We are seeing 683,000+ coming in.

                  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...t/february2018

                  We have tried "the we need immigrants because our population is ageing" but I haven't met any of these magic non ageing immigrants.
                  Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by vetran View Post
                    OK explain why for the hard of thinking why we need immigration at the level we are experiencing.

                    Almost everyone will concede that we need some highly skilled migrants (i.e. world renowned experts not cheap IT people with forged qualifications) I would suggest we need say 100k of those plus we can expect a few family members joining previous immigrants say 100,000. We are seeing 683,000+ coming in.

                    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...t/february2018

                    We have tried "the we need immigrants because our population is ageing" but I haven't met any of these magic non ageing immigrants.
                    That's because all the reasons trotted out are bulltulip.

                    the real reasons are

                    1) Immigrants will accept lower wages than natives.
                    2) Immigrants will accept 'poorer' standard living conditions than natives
                    3) Immigrants are ripe for being new voters - thus dump a load of immigrants in your constituency and give them free stuff - hey presto more votes.

                    There also needs to be a clear distinction between
                    1) Profesional people coming into the UK with specific skills and an ability to support themselves.
                    2) Economic migrants


                    But it's is not going to change so meh.

                    Comment


                      #20
                      How exactly do you manage to balance all this sanctimonious cr*p and being a Contractor in that tiny skull?

                      You know my car lease company drivers are all recent immigrants from some of the poorest places in the world. I always ask them if they like it here and if they've experienced any animosity. All of them say the people here are very nice, better than anywhere else they've been.

                      Immigrants come here because it's a good place to live and by and large the Brits are good people. Get over yourself.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X