Another gullible politician negotiating poorly with India

[Zigenare]

To be fair I'm not surprised cheaper, 2nd rate Indian IT workers are used if the alternative, as demonstrated by the general level of (non)-intelligence demonstrated on this forum, is hiring more expensive 2nd rate British IT workers.
At the bottom-feeder level it makes sense to get the cheapest, since there's not much difference in quality.
I haven't come across many Indian workers at the top end.
They're just not competitive at that level, except in the US, where the cream goes.

If only you were half as good as you think you are.

[sal]

There a plenty of quality IT resources in India, but they never "make the news". The whole situation is caused by supply and demand - almost no one is offshoring for quality - it's always a cost saving exercise. In which case no one is going for "somewhat tulipier and little bit cheaper", everyone is going full hog "dirt cheap, absolute tulip". You get what you pay for, nationality of the resource is irrelevant here. So naturally India having the largest "native" English speaking population coupled with low living cost is well positioned to meet the demand for cheap, tulip IT staff.

[BlasterBates]

Contractors need to spend more time keeping their skills up to date and less time whining about offshored resources.

There is a sense of entitlement that companies should be paying a fortune for contractor resources to the detriment of the permies.

OK I will now don my armour and await the responses.

[GreenMirror]

Lots of IT work has been outsourced to India thanks to greedy directors at the expense of UK jobs.

The low end stuff - quite a lot. The higher end stuff - less so.

I wonder if too much high end stuff from TSB was outsourced?

[CoolCat]

Contractors need to spend more time keeping their skills up to date and less time whining about offshored resources.

There is a sense of entitlement that companies should be paying a fortune for contractor resources to the detriment of the permies.

OK I will now don my armour and await the responses.

Dont care whether they are permie or contract, I would prefer they are British or properly entitled to indefinite leave to remain by being married to a Brit

Indeed I dont mind foreign workers either if 1 they dont undercut locals 2 they bring skills genuinely in short suppy (not the IT biz at the mo) 3 they do not try to pick up rights to residence simply for working here 4 they pay for their own childrens schools while they are here 5 they pay for their own families healthcare 6 they pay at least as much tax as locals

[sal]

Dont care whether they are permie or contract, I would prefer they are British or properly entitled to indefinite leave to remain by being married to a Brit

Indeed I dont mind foreign workers either if 1 they dont undercut locals 2 they bring skills genuinely in short suppy (not the IT biz at the mo) 3 they do not try to pick up rights to residence simply for working here 4 they pay for their own childrens schools while they are here 5 they pay for their own families healthcare 6 they pay at least as much tax as locals

This is quite a xenophobic statement...

You want them to pay "at least" as much tax as locals, do you hint they have to pay more tax (they already do pay the same amount of tax)? On top of that you want them to pay out of pocket for some public services that the tax they are paying goes towards? How is that fair? Hint a lot of them already pay extra for access to NHS.

As for skill shortage in IT and undercutting "locals", most if not all non-Brits in IT that I have worked with are being paid the same salary/rate as the Brits in the same roles. Yet someone preferred them over the "locals", it's not undercutting, so obviously there is skill shortage.

[BlasterBates]

Dont care whether they are permie or contract, I would prefer they are British or properly entitled to indefinite leave to remain by being married to a Brit

Indeed I dont mind foreign workers either if 1 they dont undercut locals 2 they bring skills genuinely in short suppy (not the IT biz at the mo) 3 they do not try to pick up rights to residence simply for working here 4 they pay for their own childrens schools while they are here 5 they pay for their own families healthcare 6 they pay at least as much tax as locals

If they weren't allowed in companies would offshore and outsource even more.

The irony is that because companies do get foreigners in on temporary workers visas allows Contractors and permies to earn even more than if they weren't allowed in.

You need to learn some basic economics

[CoolCat]

This is quite a xenophobic statement...

You want them to pay "at least" as much tax as locals, do you hint they have to pay more tax (they already do pay the same amount of tax)? On top of that you want them to pay out of pocket for some public services that the tax they are paying goes towards? How is that fair? Hint a lot of them already pay extra for access to NHS.

As for skill shortage in IT and undercutting "locals", most if not all non-Brits in IT that I have worked with are being paid the same salary/rate as the Brits in the same roles. Yet someone preferred them over the "locals", it's not undercutting, so obviously there is skill shortage.

Re "they already do pay the same amount of tax" no they dont, for instance work visa holders get the first 12 months in this country free of both employers and employees national insurance, they are allowed payments tax free as supposed expenses that Brits working far from home within the UK are not, they get a full years tax allowance even if only in this country for part of a tax year, and so much more, their outsourcing parent company are usually setup to pay corporate taxes in tax havens not here

Re "are being paid the same salary/rate as the Brits in the same roles" not in my experience, and the sheer volume coming in depresses pay

there is no skills shortage in IT, and even the governments own immigration advisors agree

[CoolCat]

If they weren't allowed in companies would offshore and outsource even more.

The irony is that because companies do get foreigners in on temporary workers visas allows Contractors and permies to earn even more than if they weren't allowed in.

You need to learn some basic economics

you need a presence here in order to be able to move work offshore, many work visa holders are engaged in doing nothing more than moving British jobs offshore

[Zigenare]

Re "they already do pay the same amount of tax" no they dont, for instance work visa holders get the first 12 months in this country free of both employers and employees national insurance, they are allowed payments tax free as supposed expenses that Brits working far from home within the UK are not, they get a full years tax allowance even if only in this country for part of a tax year, and so much more, their outsourcing parent company are usually setup to pay corporate taxes in tax havens not here

Re "are being paid the same salary/rate as the Brits in the same roles" not in my experience, and the sheer volume coming in depresses pay

there is no skills shortage in IT, and even the governments own immigration advisors agree

FFS, don't bring facts into this discussion.

Btw, who's got the keys to the outrage bus?