Breaking: Pimlico Plumbers loses Supreme Court appeal.... Breaking: Pimlico Plumbers loses Supreme Court appeal.... - Page 2
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  1. #11

    Better than AtW

    sasguru - scorchio!


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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGorilla View Post
    Eh?
    Why would you consider this good news?
    Hard Brexit now!

    "In economics, things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could."

  2. #12

    Godlike

    PurpleGorilla - scorchio!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Why would you consider this good news?
    If you are a disguised employee then you should be entitled to the benefits of employment.

  3. #13

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    Hobosapien - scorchio!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotslaw View Post
    Doesn't this decision basically give HMRC the legal ammunition to consider all contractors within IR35? They might not even have to push through the private sector reform any more.
    Very discouraging!

    Depends if they read the BBC website.

    If it does come to pass that the rules are changed so that all individual contractors are deemed employees then it will be like those public sector contractors working via an umbrella. You can have the employee rights (to a degree) but it all comes out of the invoice paid by the client. So need to up the rate charged accordingly.

    HMRC and clients can't have it both ways (not employees but paying employee taxes that the client would otherwise pay), so if contractors are deemed employees they should have full employee rights. Private sector clients wouldn't like that (unless they can offload responsibility to an umbrella or payroll company) so may push back on the whole approach.

    At least this kind of news continues to put the whole sorry mess in the spotlight so a proper solution will be required that suits both client and contractor, if the client wants to continue to find short term resource of a sufficiently high standard at a much reduced cost than the big consultancies will offer.
    Maybe tomorrow, I'll want to settle down. Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

  4. #14

    Still gathering requirements...

    Scotslaw is too good to be a permie


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobosapien View Post
    Depends if they read the BBC website.

    If it does come to pass that the rules are changed so that all individual contractors are deemed employees then it will be like those public sector contractors working via an umbrella. You can have the employee rights (to a degree) but it all comes out of the invoice paid by the client. So need to up the rate charged accordingly.

    HMRC and clients can't have it both ways (not employees but paying employee taxes that the client would otherwise pay), so if contractors are deemed employees they should have full employee rights. Private sector clients wouldn't like that (unless they can offload responsibility to an umbrella or payroll company) so may push back on the whole approach.
    Even if private sector clients increase the contract day rates, I think rate increases will not be nearly sufficient to offset the reduced net income.
    I think as a result the take-home for most contractors would significantly reduce in a situation like this.
    This may result in only those super-niche skills going through the contract, for which private sector clients may have a higher appetite to make up the income reduction.

    And all because a £200K per year contractor wanted to get even more from his agency!!

  5. #15

    Nervous Newbie

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    This case is relevant to me as I am thinking of becoming a Freelance Contractor / Interim Manager. I told this to a former client and he said words to the effect of "Set yourself up as a Limited company and I will offer you a 10 month contract, working full-time Monday to Friday on a daily rate of £xxx."

    My question is please, If I took up this offer and worked as an Interim Manager through my own Limited company, would HMRC view it as disguised employment?

    I look forward to hearing back from members, thanks.

  6. #16

    I live on CUK

    vetran is always on top

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyLopez View Post
    This case is relevant to me as I am thinking of becoming a Freelance Contractor / Interim Manager. I told this to a former client and he said words to the effect of "Set yourself up as a Limited company and I will offer you a 10 month contract, working full-time Monday to Friday on a daily rate of £xxx."

    My question is please, If I took up this offer and worked as an Interim Manager through my own Limited company, would HMRC view it as disguised employment?

    I look forward to hearing back from members, thanks.
    Try reading some of the stuff on the cuk website there is quite a lot.


    It doesn't matter what HMRC think they would put Henry Ford down as an employee.

    Its what they can prove.

    what they will try to prove is that you are inside IR35 and get to pay lots of extra tax even on your expenses.

    plenty of ways to make them unlikely to succeed, read the advice.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  7. #17

    More fingers than teeth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotslaw View Post
    Even if private sector clients increase the contract day rates, I think rate increases will not be nearly sufficient to offset the reduced net income. ..
    The game changer for many contractors, possibly most, would be that as an employee they will no longer be able to claim travel & accommodation expenses!

    Rates would have to rise massively to, um, accommodate that.
    Work in the public sector? Read the IR35 FAQ here

  8. #18

    I live on CUK

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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlHoot View Post
    The game changer for many contractors, possibly most, would be that as an employee they will no longer be able to claim travel & accommodation expenses!

    Rates would have to rise massively to, um, accommodate that.
    don't worry the Government will fill the shortage with cheap overseas workers as usual.
    "If you didn't do anything that wasn't good for you it would be a very dull life. What are you gonna do? Everything that is pleasant in life is dangerous."

    I want to see the hand of history on his collar.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    don't worry the Government will fill the shortage with cheap overseas workers as usual.
    Overseas workers, cheap or not, are brought in because indigenous workers like you are useless.

    HTH, BIDI.
    Hard Brexit now!

    "In economics, things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could."

  10. #20

    Fingers like lightning

    TwoWolves is a permanent contractor

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Overseas workers, cheap or not, are brought in because indigenous workers like you are useless.

    HTH, BIDI.
    ...and don't vote Labour often enough.

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