Religion makes us poor bigots! Religion makes us poor bigots!
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  1. #1

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    Default Religion makes us poor bigots!

    Shunning religion makes nations richer and more tolerant for individual rights, study finds | Daily Mail Online

    Shunning religion can boost a country’s prosperity, a study has found.

    Researchers at the universities of Bristol and Tennessee found that higher levels of secularism led to higher wealth and a greater tolerance for individual rights.

    They examined output figures for 109 countries and the importance of religious faith in those states.

    A modest increase in secularisation corresponded to an average £800 increase in output per head within a decade, a £2,000 increase in 20 years and a £4,000 increase within 30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    Religion makes us poor bigots!
    And secularism makes us rich bigots?

    Full text here. It's well known that secularism and prosperity are correlated. What they've shown is the increase in secularism precedes the increase in prosperity.

    Interesting statement in the abstract

    "Our multilevel, time-lagged regressions also indicate that tolerance for individual rights predicted 20th century economic growth even better than secularization."

    There's no indication of a causitive link though - it's still correlation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vetran View Post
    Shunning religion makes nations richer and more tolerant for individual rights, study finds*

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    Are you/the Daily Mail saying that if the UK was less religious, we (the UK) would be more tolerant of others?
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    For religion to work you need a right and a wrong, a good and a bad.

    If you are the 'good' people you need to choose some 'bad' people to persecute.

    So religion in general will result in conflict.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    Are you/the Daily Mail saying that if the UK was less religious, we (the UK) would be more tolerant of others?
    Given the reference above about tolerance preceding prosperity being an even stronger predictor, if fewer people read the Daily Mail, the UK would be richer. A corollary of this is that Vetran and his DM loving friends are causing more economic harm than religious people.

    But then, most DM readers have no sense of irony.

    Saudi Arabia is quite prosperous.
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    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    Quote Originally Posted by original PM View Post
    For religion to work you need a right and a wrong, a good and a bad.

    If you are the 'good' people you need to choose some 'bad' people to persecute.

    So religion in general will result in conflict.
    I'd argue that it's the application of religion.

    Most old religions talk about good and bad actions/deeds/words, not good and bad people.
    "Do not commit murder" - murder is a bad thing to do.
    "Help those who need it" - helping others is a good thing to do.
    "Don't judge people based on what they look like/where they are from/their religion, but judge them on their actions" - maybe the parable of the good Samaritan is still relevant today?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    I'd argue that it's the application of religion.

    Most old religions talk about good and bad actions/deeds/words, not good and bad people.
    "Do not commit murder" - murder is a bad thing to do.
    "Help those who need it" - helping others is a good thing to do.
    "Don't judge people based on what they look like/where they are from/their religion, but judge them on their actions" - maybe the parable of the good Samaritan is still relevant today?
    hmmm. Now apply that thinking to almost anywhere in the Middle East. Particularly now Israel's right wing government has declared Israel to be a Jewish Nation State. Now that is heading towards similar rulings that formed the basis of the apartheid policy's of the old South Aftrica.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44881554

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    Religion is the not the problem here rather peoples understanding and application of it. Most religions have similar commandments of being kind, not harming other, helping poor, forgiving, etc.

    I would argue a country without any moral codes will be far less understanding and caring , more selfish and greedy.

    Who says success is down to wealth alone? we should not measure success or failure based on wealth alone. A person can have less yet be content within themselves. yet we see so many with a lot of wealth suffering from loneliness, depression and even those committing suicide. happiness is being content with what you have

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    Quote Originally Posted by abu1 View Post
    Religion is the not the problem here rather peoples understanding and application of it. Most religions have similar commandments of being kind, not harming other, helping poor, forgiving, etc.

    I would argue a country without any moral codes will be far less understanding and caring , more selfish and greedy.

    Who says success is down to wealth alone? we should not measure success or failure based on wealth alone. A person can have less yet be content within themselves. yet we see so many with a lot of wealth suffering from loneliness, depression and even those committing suicide. happiness is being content with what you have
    There is an Ian Hunter song entitled "God, Take 1" in which Ian Hunter has a conversation with God and one line sticks in my mind. Ian Hunter ask. "What about religion?" God Replies "well you did that it helped to keep your little leaders fat". Anybody else thinks this is apt.

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    Not all religions are created equal and not many are applied in any meaningful way by the broader population which makes this kind of argument fatuous.

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