Jenni Murray pulls out of Oxford talk amid trans row

[MarillionFan]

WGAS

[jds 1981]

and charge her with a crime because, in their view, she did not recognise their sex.

Gender - don't conflate the two. As I understand it, gender used to apply to words. Sex is what we all thought it to be. Gender was then used to attempt to group characteristics which may have aligned a little with sex.
Sex then stays the same, gender can apparently change. It becomes hazy because while many people thought they were referring to peoples sex when they said male/female, another group thought they were referring to gender. This can of course lead to accusations of misgendering, etc.

[NotAllThere]

Murry said that a so-called trans women can never have the same experiences as women who aren't trans. They've never had periods, they've grown up to a certain point as a male. They may well have had quite different experiences from males who've never desired to be a different gender (or felt that they are), and certainly shouldn't be, e.g., beaten up for it, but they've definitely not had the same experiences as women who aren't trans.

The trans activists insist that those experiences aren't what matters. What matters is what you identify as. Only. Personally, I think that's a load of tosh, and by denying the validity of non-trans women's experiences, is in fact a form of misogyny.

[Old Greg]

Murry said that a so-called trans women can never have the same experiences as women who aren't trans. They've never had periods, they've grown up to a certain point as a male. They may well have had quite different experiences from males who've never desired to be a different gender (or felt that they are), and certainly shouldn't be, e.g., beaten up for it, but they've definitely not had the same experiences as women who aren't trans.

The trans activists insist that those experiences aren't what matters. What matters is what you identify as. Only. Personally, I think that's a load of tosh, and by denying the validity of non-trans women's experiences, is in fact a form of misogyny.

Wonder what she thinks about women born as biological women but who never menstruate.

[Gibbon]

The trans activists insist that those experiences aren't what matters. What matters is what you identify as. Only. Personally, I think that's a load of tosh, and by denying the validity of non-trans women's experiences, is in fact a form of misogyny.

That is tosh and is not fact. Sex is biological, gender is performative (Re. Judith Butler). A baby girl is usually born with a vagina (there are intersex) and then everything revolves around her being a girl, clothes, toys, conversations all reinforce the gender and for the standard deviation this is not a problem. Some people though are 'born' in the wrong body. I know this from close example. My step brother was born a girl with 3 sisters, so no cultural persuasions, and from the age of 4 hated girls stuff. Refused to wear a dress, wouldn't play with dolls etc. When he got to teenage years fancied girls, so ok 'you're a lesbian' and years of angst ensued. Something wasn't right, he preferred the company and conversations of men. He fancied women but not in a fem on fem way, he fancied them in a male fem way. He was a man and since his gender reassignment he has finally found peace and the male joy of having a cock (albeit a mechanical one). To us he is a man, walks like a man, talks like a man, fecks like a man. To be accepted as a man is core to his very being.

This woman and many like her are denying the same to trans women and is wrong. You don't hear the same vitriol from men about trans men. For a man to turn up at work dressed as a woman is not trivial or a phase, that's how he feels he fits into the world. To be told she is not a real woman is a rejection of self. Gender is complex and can be fluid, man and woman are the same species with some differential ratios of certain hormones which manifest themselves in a physicality. Just think of Men with prostate cancer on hormone treatment (PCa feeds on testosterone), they grow breasts and have pseudo menstrual cycles i.e. one week a month they are tetchy.

For the record though I have no truck with the current movement towards self-identification as that has been proven to be an avenue to abuse and violence. A man transiting to a woman should be qualified by practitioners as a dual safe guard.

[scooterscot]

Gender - don't conflate the two. As I understand it, gender used to apply to words. Sex is what we all thought it to be. Gender was then used to attempt to group characteristics which may have aligned a little with sex.
Sex then stays the same, gender can apparently change. It becomes hazy because while many people thought they were referring to peoples sex when they said male/female, another group thought they were referring to gender. This can of course lead to accusations of misgendering, etc.

Actually some are defending the right not to be referred as having a gender, neither a him or a her. That's fine. Just don't make it law.

[Jog On]

Actually some are defending the right not to be referred as having a gender, neither a him or a her. That's fine. Just don't make it law.

This is why Jordan Peterson is famous, for saying just that - he even said he'd happily and voluntarily use whatever pronouns people wanted to be addressed by - but compelled speech is what he spoke out against.

There is something really not right about the amount of power behind this PC movement, compelled speech and restrictions on free speech along with a declawed and emasculated male population are a Machiavellian wet dream

[tazdevil]

There is something really not right about the amount of power behind this PC movement, compelled speech and restrictions on free speech along with a declawed and emasculated male population are a Machiavellian wet dream

The something is social media and we need an EMP to target the social media systems and bring them down Social media will end up consuming itself by destroying the communication freedom it bases itself on

[northernladuk]

Interesting story in the Wail today about 4 trans women beating a bloke senseless and stamping on him. It's been considered so serious it's going to Crown Court rather than being handled by Magistrates.

Following on the comments previously about physical differences it will be interesting to see if their strength comes in to any cases like this. I know there are many women stronger than men but it's on a scale. I don't think there is much of an argument when you consider a man is generally stronger than a woman so will this affect the case in hand....

[Jog On]

Interesting story in the Wail today about 4 trans women beating a bloke senseless and stamping on him. It's been considered so serious it's going to Crown Court rather than being handled by Magistrates.

Following on the comments previously about physical differences it will be interesting to see if their strength comes in to any cases like this. I know there are many women stronger than men but it's on a scale. I don't think there is much of an argument when you consider a man is generally stronger than a woman so will this affect the case in hand....

There was a thing a while ago about a trans 'girl' winning a female wrestling tournament at his (oops 'her') school. Was a tricky one for sure.