Everything I hate about irresponsible journalism. Everything I hate about irresponsible journalism. - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    So just in case it's really necessary to state it, you have a poll commissioned by a self-promoting organisation which comes back showing just how 'vital' that organisation's role is. Anyone been able to find the actual questions asked to see if they were balanced?

    You can almost always get the results you want if you ask the questions in the right way.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by WordIsBond View Post
    You can almost always get the results you want if you ask the questions in the right way.
    This is true, which is why reputable polls are carefully designed.

    I'm not sure though, how you can elicit different responses to "How many Jews were killed during the holocaust?".

    Unfortunately, all though the HMDT say they've released research, I find no actual record of the research, just the results. Usually when there's a poll the questions and detailed results are published, but the pollsters in this case don't seem to do that.
    Hmm. I'm beginning to suspect that you need to find all the packing the computer came in...

  3. #23

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    There are alot of holocaust deniers out there. Many people are just sick of the nonsense fed by the government. If they were told the sun would rise in the morning they would look out of the window to check.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAllThere View Post
    This is true, which is why reputable polls are carefully designed.

    I'm not sure though, how you can elicit different responses to "How many Jews were killed during the holocaust?".

    Unfortunately, all though the HMDT say they've released research, I find no actual record of the research, just the results. Usually when there's a poll the questions and detailed results are published, but the pollsters in this case don't seem to do that.
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by NotAllThere View Post
    Yes, because I read the linked article.



    And a little look at the HMDT website
    I read the article on a mobile and didnt see a link. I don't really like spending time on the Independent.

    So, before I posted my question, I googled for the research and found a lot of related articles from different time periods and in different countries basically saying the same thing.

    That's why I wanted to find out about the research my guess is that it's being promoted by an organisation with a vested interest. I also wanted to find out how the questions are phrased.

    I've read a fair bit on the Holocaust and how decent people (the Germans are) were persuaded to commit such terrible acts. So, I'm in no way a denier and believe every kid should be taught about the millions of people murdered and how decent people can be manipulated into committing these acts.

    BUT.. I'm also interested in how these types of surveys are commissioned, how the questions are phrased etc. It seems to be the norm now that organisations pay survey companies to do this research and then the research is taken as fact. Without ever questioning the research company or their methodology.
    Last edited by woohoo; 28th January 2019 at 09:15.

  6. #26

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    "I've read a fair bit on the Holocaust and how decent people (the Germans are) were persuaded to commit such terrible acts. So, I'm in no way a denier and believe every kid should be taught about the millions of people murdered and how decent people can be manipulated into committing these acts."

    It is quite easy assuming you have a disgruntled struggling population

    Step 1 - Give a group of a people a label
    Step 2 - Start telling people that people with that label have less value than them and are bad.
    Step 3 - Start treating people with that label differently
    Step 4 - Make it really clear that having that label is bad and and you do not want it.
    Step 5 - Show people that persecuting those with labels is acceptable
    Step 6 - Think we know the rest


    The sad thing is this happens all the time - often without us knowing it.

    For example doing a change at work - no doubt some people will be against it or question it - easy problem to solve - give those people a label of negative or cynical and then make it clear that you will not engage in negative or cynical discussion.

    So in essence you have given people a label and removed their voice with justification and support from senior stakeholders.

    Simples!

  7. #27

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    The one thing I've always struggled with is that the population of Germany must have known about it, you can't keep something like that quiet, and therefore the people going to the camps should/would have known what was going to happen to them of they got on the trains. So why just let it happen?

    All suposition, but you would think if they refused to get on the trains and the guards started shooting them in the station, someone somewhere would have got the news out?

    Maybe it's my mind set, but if I knew I was going to be exterminated if I went through a door, I'd do my level best to seriously hurt someone before I went through it... Nothing to lose.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost It View Post
    The one thing I've always struggled with is that the population of Germany must have known about it, you can't keep something like that quiet, and therefore the people going to the camps should/would have known what was going to happen to them of they got on the trains. So why just let it happen?

    All suposition, but you would think if they refused to get on the trains and the guards started shooting them in the station, someone somewhere would have got the news out?

    Maybe it's my mind set, but if I knew I was going to be exterminated if I went through a door, I'd do my level best to seriously hurt someone before I went through it... Nothing to lose.
    The tragic problem was that a great many of those going through that door didn't believe it till it was too late and the door was locked behind them.

    Bit like the old "clutching at straws" mindset.
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  9. #29

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    Young people are generally very ignorant about most of the second world war.

    The latest thing is calling Churchill a right-wing white supremacist. Should have seen the other guy.
    Last edited by TwoWolves; 29th January 2019 at 00:00.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Greg View Post
    I'll quote the first bit for you:



    Do you not think it inevitable that there will be those on the far right who want another Holocaust?

    Wanting to find full on "6 million jews to the camps right now" crazy? I reckon you are probably looking at a few thousand people in the UK. Less than 1 in a million.

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