Alabama - WTF!

[ladymuck]

Well a man does have to deal with part of the outcome, financially anyway.

I agree with you about the lack of male contraceptives, I'm surprised so many men trust women to take it.

If they stick around to pay for it, yes. But chucking money at a sprog does not a father make. I know some men find it painful to part with cash but it's not on a par with childbirth.

Your second sentence doesn't warrant a response; you're trolling.

[BrilloPad]

But chucking money at a sprog does not a father make.

Agreed. Money should be the minimum.

There again, the CSA has something to answer for. I have a friend divorced in the 1980s. When judges ruled on child maintenance payments. He was desperate to play a part in his child's life. The mother refused him all contact. So the judge decided no payment to be made.

With the CSA, if you get overnight stays you pay less. So it is in the mother's interests to stop contact in some cases.

The sooner women get equality in the workplace the better.

[Gibbon]

Religious freaks still have too much influence in this world. It's unbelievable in this day and age that people still believe in a story thought up by illiterate sheepfekkers in the dessert 2000 years ago

One of the intentions of Christianity was to supplant rational with irrational thought, the founding father Paul (without whom the Jesus gang would have remained an exclusive Jewish sect) even declares it: For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Corth 1:19.

[d000hg]

Alabama passes bill banning abortion - BBC News

But it's not just Alabama, Georgia have passed new laws as well as Ohio, watching John Oliver this week you can now claim a child as a deduction for tax from the moment it is conceived, in his words "the most republican tax cut possible"

I knew trump would pander to his core base, and it looks like the deep south are taking that to the extreme trying to push as much as possible to the SCOUS to see if they can over turn "Roe v Wade"

And we thought the DUP was ****ed up!

So you take the view allowing abortion, even of healthy viable babies, is the civilised route? I'm not a conservative hard-liner on the topic but it seems to me we've gone too far by any sensible measure when you can kill what is definitely a baby rather than a fetus at 20-something weeks, or terminate based on non-life threatening conditions such as Downs.

I'm somewhat on the fence on the issue and very surprised to see such drastic reversals especially considering the western world is generally going in the other direction toward full-term and post-term abortions.
I thought the fetal heart-beat idea was pretty huge (and not without merit FWIW) but a blanket ban is a huge shock. I'm not sure I can see it getting through the courts.
Even the proper hard-liners I know who would say all abortion and some forms of contraception are murder, have said pragmatically that allowing abortion in case of rape, etc, would be reasonable if it were tightened up to prevent "lifestyle abortions".

I assume I'll get slammed for not taking the mainstream view but heigh-ho.

[Old Greg]

So you take the view allowing abortion, even of healthy viable babies, is the civilised route? I'm not a conservative hard-liner on the topic but it seems to me we've gone too far by any sensible measure when you can kill what is definitely a baby rather than a fetus at 20-something weeks, or terminate based on non-life threatening conditions such as Downs.

I'm somewhat on the fence on the issue and very surprised to see such drastic reversals especially considering the western world is generally going in the other direction toward full-term and post-term abortions.
I thought the fetal heart-beat idea was pretty huge (and not without merit FWIW) but a blanket ban is a huge shock. I'm not sure I can see it getting through the courts.
Even the proper hard-liners I know who would say all abortion and some forms of contraception are murder, have said pragmatically that allowing abortion in case of rape, etc, would be reasonable if it were tightened up to prevent "lifestyle abortions".

I assume I'll get slammed for not taking the mainstream view but heigh-ho.

Couple of points

1. You have incorrectly used the term 'babies'. Killing babies is illegal. A termination of pregnancy invloves killing an embryo or foetus. What is your motivation for this?

2. The hard liners pragmatically accept murder as a legal option in the case of rape etc? WTF!

[Gibbon]

Couple of points

1. You have incorrectly used the term 'babies'. Killing babies is illegal. A termination of pregnancy invloves killing an embryo or foetus. What is your motivation for this?

2. The hard liners pragmatically accept murder as a legal option in the case of rape etc? WTF!

1. Faith and the forcing of beliefs onto others.
2. Faith is irrational.

[ladymuck]

I'd like to see the evidence / stats for "lifestyle abortions". Mistakes happen or something goes wrong.

Abortion isn't simple. It's a nasty process on the body, whatever stage it happens at. For a vulnerable woman, it can also be a mentally harrowing experience.

Men seem to think that pregancy, birth, abortions, miscarriages are all just a walk in the park so they're perfectly placed to shame, blame, legislate and generally decide what a woman should do with her body.

[Old Greg]

1. Faith and the forcing of beliefs onto others.
2. Faith is irrational.

Sure. I get that it is an emotive subject, but arguments should be presented honestly.

Edit: also, we need to understand that the views of many opponents of abortion are underpinned by a fantastical belief in a human soul. People can believe whatever fictional nonsense they like, but rational people should discount such nonsense.

[filthy1980]

Sure. I get that it is an emotive subject, but arguments should be presented honestly.

at what point would you say a fetus is a baby?

[Old Greg]

at what point would you say a fetus is a baby?

Birth is the normal definition.