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Boeing 737 Max: China's top airlines seek compensation

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    #11
    "737 MAX’s non-redundant computer system is subject to possible interference by “cosmic rays striking the circuitry” at high altitudes."

    This is referred to as Single Event Upsets. Most aircraft are affected in some way, the important part is detecting an un-commanded event, like MCAS. Un-commanded events like this are very difficult to detect because technical nothing has failed.
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark Twain

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      #12
      Bit flipping:

      Particles from outer space are wreaking low-grade havoc on personal electronics

      For cases where reliability is absolutely critical, you can simply design the processors in triplicate and have them vote.

      Bhuva pointed out: "The probability that SEUs will occur in two of the circuits at the same time is vanishingly small.

      So if two circuits produce the same result it should be correct."

      This is the approach that NASA used to maximize the reliability of spacecraft computer systems.
      Looks like Boeing didn't get the memo.

      The good news, Bhuva said, is that the aviation, medical equipment, IT, transportation, communications, financial and power industries are all aware of the problem and are taking steps to address it.

      "It is only the consumer electronics sector that has been lagging behind in addressing this problem."
      Oh, and Boeing of course.

      You couldn't make this tulip up you really couldn't.

      Single point failure and bit flipping due to cosmic rays.
      When the fun stops, STOP.

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by DoctorStrangelove View Post
        Bit flipping:

        Particles from outer space are wreaking low-grade havoc on personal electronics



        Looks like Boeing didn't get the memo.



        Oh, and Boeing of course.

        You couldn't make this tulip up you really couldn't.

        Single point failure and bit flipping due to cosmic rays.
        The fix is to surround the aircraft with lead shielding.
        "A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices," George Orwell

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by scooterscot View Post
          Boeing's VW moment with their troubled MCAS (Manoeuvring Characteristics Augmentation System) system. Or 'May Crash at Any Second', as I like to call it.

          Boeing 737 Max: China's top airlines seek compensation



          Tell me... would you fly on this aircraft after some software engineers told me the patched the problem? Hell no would be my answer. I don't know why anyone would take the risk.
          Some years ago I was working for Hitachi at a time when self tuning TV's began to appear. I was quite interested in the technology, but was surprised to learn when visiting the design team, that those who were programming the processes had not received any program training and were not scheduled to do so.

          I guess many will remember the Airbus crash at the Paris airshow, where the pilot couldn't over ride the fly by wire computer control. We now have this 737 Max problem. I've previously posted here the illogical control of the air con. in my wife's Fiesta and my Jaguar. You press a button to switch on climate control, but there is no button to switch it off. You have to reset it by turning the fan speed button. Quite logical isn't it?

          I guess we should all be wary of fly by wire, whatever aircraft its on.

          Comment


            #15
            MCAS annoys me cause it was developed for no other reason than flawed structural design. That's it. A massive plaster. If that's how the design team *thinks* this is how best practice is applied for new product development then I'd not touch their shares with a bargepole.

            Did quite a bit of work on SEU's for Rolls Royce aerospace engine controllers. Part statistical, i.e. determining an acceptable level of probability an event would occur in conjunction with shielding the electronics in question. The majority of cosmic rays vary in energy, you can actually shield against the majority as well as using redundancy. Although I have come across some situations whereby the redundant parts rely on a single sensor - head wallop slap. Then I rant to the design team and get them to see sense.
            "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". Mark Twain

            Comment


              #16
              Originally posted by scooterscot View Post
              MCAS annoys me cause it was developed for no other reason than flawed structural design. That's it. A massive plaster. If that's how the design team *thinks* this is how best practice is applied for new product development then I'd not touch their shares with a bargepole.

              Did quite a bit of work on SEU's for Rolls Royce aerospace engine controllers. Part statistical, i.e. determining an acceptable level of probability an event would occur in conjunction with shielding the electronics in question. The majority of cosmic rays vary in energy, you can actually shield against the majority as well as using redundancy. Although I have come across some situations whereby the redundant parts rely on a single sensor - head wallop slap. Then I rant to the design team and get them to see sense.
              Weren't you the fuqwit warning of blades exiting the engine casing and slicing us up in our seats?
              Old Greg - In search of acceptance since Mar 2007. Hoping each leap will be his last.

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by Zigenare View Post
                Weren't you the fuqwit warning of blades exiting the engine casing and slicing us up in our seats?
                Wot like Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 ?

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by Benny View Post
                  Wot like Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 ?
                  Nope.

                  Nice try though.

                  Stick to w*nking over Miss Doiannne!
                  Old Greg - In search of acceptance since Mar 2007. Hoping each leap will be his last.

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by Zigenare View Post
                    Nope.

                    Nice try though.

                    Stick to w*nking over Miss Doiannne!
                    hows about ?

                    Qantas Flight 32
                    Delta Airlines flight 1288
                    United Airlines Flight 232
                    National Airlines Flight 27

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Originally posted by Benny View Post
                      hows about ?


                      United Airlines Flight 232
                      Sioux City Approach: "United Two Thirty-Two Heavy, the wind's currently three six zero at one one; three sixty at eleven. You're cleared to land on any runway."[6]

                      Haynes: "[laughter] Roger. [laughter] You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?
                      Now that takes cohones, and no mistake.
                      When the fun stops, STOP.

                      Comment

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