My ClientCo Just Blanketed Everyone Inside

[vas]

Except it is not better off by much at all.

Big fat free pension...yep
Paid for sickness, including visits to opticians, dentists, doctor and hospital appointments...yep
30 days paid holiday, plus 8 days bank holiday....yep
Top level medical coverage for all family included....yep
Free offsite training (for me about 3 weeks per year so far)....yep

The list goes on.

Enjoy being a permie without the benefits or long term job security!

It depends.
Umbrella on £110-120k PAYE or employee on £70-80 000 PAYE with the above perks.
You dont think an employee role will pay 230*£500 as salary, do you?

[Lance]

If they determine you inside, they have to give you the determination.

Not sure they do.
It's not law yet, and the law to prevent blanket determinations is also not yet law.
They can do this if they desire.

More importantly, they just say "no you can't use a sub, we want you under SDC and we'll accept that we are obliged to find you work for the duration of your contract, and we expect you to accept". Then you are inside anyway.

Suck it up or leave are your choices.

[DimPrawn]

It depends.
Umbrella on £110-120k PAYE or employee on £70-80 000 PAYE with the above perks.
You dont think an employee role will pay 230*£500 as salary, do you?

I know nothing of umbrella contractors I've only ever worked outside IR35 via a super tax efficient ltd company.

So....

There are 253 "working" days in 2019 (that's 365 minus weekends and bank holidays).

As a perm I get 30 days paid annual leave.

So I work 223 days.

Are you getting £110K for working 253 days, or do you get that for working 223 days? If you are off sick or injured for two weeks in a year, do you still get the same pay?

Let's take an example where in a given year you are also not working 10 days due to sickness, medical appointments and the like.

This means I'm only working for 213 days but still getting paid.

And with my bonus and free pension money, my total income is close to £90K.

I know some of you are on > £1000 per day and in these circumstances of course any kind of contracting makes total sense. But for those on < £500 under the new rules, I'm not sure it is worth the hassle and uncertainty.

In between is the grey area and that depends on total bench time.

[jmo21]

Not sure they do.
It's not law yet, and the law to prevent blanket determinations is also not yet law.

Blanket determinations isn't what appears to be happening. Blanket "we are not using Ltd co contractors any more" is.

[Amanensia]

Interestingly one very large ClientCo in my field has just broken away from the pack and stated that contractors will in future only be engaged via Limited Companies - no Umbrellas - and on outside IR35 terms and working practices.

As you can imagine they now have the absolute pick of the market.

[Mordac]

Not sure they do.
It's not law yet, and the law to prevent blanket determinations is also not yet law.
They can do this if they desire.

More importantly, they just say "no you can't use a sub, we want you under SDC and we'll accept that we are obliged to find you work for the duration of your contract, and we expect you to accept". Then you are inside anyway.

Suck it up or leave are your choices.

^ All of this, basically. Most clients don't seem to understand "determination" and are probably using the HMRC guidance anyway, which isn't what one might call impartial. It's much easier just to bin ltd contractors than possbibly find themselves in conflict with HMRC.

[DimPrawn]

^ All of this, basically. Most clients don't seem to understand "determination" and are probably using the HMRC guidance anyway, which isn't what one might call impartial. It's much easier just to bin ltd contractors than possbibly find themselves in conflict with HMRC.

Most big companies want to minimise risk. Where I work now I was a contractor, they told us all when these new IR35 rules were announced that all contractors had to take a perm offer or leave. No umbrellas, no ltd companies, just perm or leave, no exceptions, no discussion.

They are taking the zero risk approach and I suspect 9/10 big companies will take the same approach.

[krytonsheep]

I suspect 9/10 big companies will take the same approach.

So far I've seen 10/10 take this approach (large businesses). Some started with good intentions by creating a steering group etc. but for whatever reason have handed in the towel.

[shaunbhoy]

All the agencies who have contacted me about work recently have said the same, inside IR35 and via a brolly.

I am sure you mean well, but few if any on here are in your particular line of work. You are a bit of a one-off. Scarecrowing is a niche market, and you've done well to have ridden the wave so long.

[CheeseSlice]

Most big companies want to minimise risk. Where I work now I was a contractor, they told us all when these new IR35 rules were announced that all contractors had to take a perm offer or leave. No umbrellas, no ltd companies, just perm or leave, no exceptions, no discussion.

They are taking the zero risk approach and I suspect 9/10 big companies will take the same approach.

So far I've seen 10/10 take this approach (large businesses). Some started with good intentions by creating a steering group etc. but for whatever reason have handed in the towel.

Financial services businesses, or just in general?
All of the big public announcements I've seen lately are well known and heavily regulated financial institutions.