My ClientCo Just Blanketed Everyone Inside

[Whorty]

Don't think you'll be saying that after 3 months of couchsurfing in the arse end of nowhere because you can't expense a nice hotel anymore

Never expensed a hotel. Always worked within commuting distance, or WFH. Never had 3 months on the bench unless I was away travelling. Fella, we're not all crap contractors, some of us are in demand and have agencies contact us about work

[DoctorStrangelove]

Do you find the sunglasses of use when you take a dump?

Just askin' like.

[Whorty]

I know nothing of umbrella contractors I've only ever worked outside IR35 via a super tax efficient ltd company.

So....

There are 253 "working" days in 2019 (that's 365 minus weekends and bank holidays).

As a perm I get 30 days paid annual leave.

So I work 223 days.

Are you getting £110K for working 253 days, or do you get that for working 223 days? If you are off sick or injured for two weeks in a year, do you still get the same pay?

Let's take an example where in a given year you are also not working 10 days due to sickness, medical appointments and the like.

This means I'm only working for 213 days but still getting paid.

And with my bonus and free pension money, my total income is close to £90K.

I know some of you are on > £1000 per day and in these circumstances of course any kind of contracting makes total sense. But for those on < £500 under the new rules, I'm not sure it is worth the hassle and uncertainty.

In between is the grey area and that depends on total bench time.

When I was contracting 'full time' I budgeted for a 220 day working year. Rate was 550+ a day. Couldn't get anywhere near that 'salary + perks' as a permie. Plus, I got to work across lots of different industries, with loads of great people that became good contacts. Made a name for myself with a number of agencies who now contact me when they have work.

If permidom suits you then fine, but it's not for everyone. Even an inside contract at 550 (more like 600-650 minimum these days) is way more lucrative to me personally then any perm role.

[vwdan]

Never expensed a hotel. Always worked within commuting distance, or WFH. Never had 3 months on the bench unless I was away travelling. Fella, we're not all crap contractors, some of us are in demand and have agencies contact us about work

I think he's talking about couchsurfing instead of getting a hotel. Your response is, frankly, naive, insulting and ignorant.

It's entirely possible to be a sought after, busy, contractor who also relies extensively on travel. In fact,many roles which are more consultancy based in niche fields would fit that - even when I was a permie consultant it was a rare treat that I got a project which was commutable and even then it was normally a 90+ minute drive.

What is it with the sudden influx of users declaring themselves "too good" to need to travel about, and pay for accommodation? I can only assume it's people with very little actual consultancy exposure - maybe too many bum on seat commodity contractors working in mainstream fields who think expenses are nothing more than a tax dodge end to end.

[Old Greg]

I think he's talking about couchsurfing instead of getting a hotel. Your response is, frankly, naive, insulting and ignorant.

It's entirely possible to be a sought after, busy, contractor who also relies extensively on travel. In fact,many roles which are more consultancy based in niche fields would fit that - even when I was a permie consultant it was a rare treat that I got a project which was commutable and even then it was normally a 90+ minute drive.

What is it with the sudden influx of users declaring themselves "too good" to need to travel about, and pay for accommodation? I can only assume it's people with very little actual consultancy exposure - maybe too many bum on seat commodity contractors working in mainstream fields who think expenses are nothing more than a tax dodge end to end.

Welcome to General.

[Whorty]

I think he's talking about couchsurfing instead of getting a hotel. Your response is, frankly, naive, insulting and ignorant.

It's entirely possible to be a sought after, busy, contractor who also relies extensively on travel. In fact,many roles which are more consultancy based in niche fields would fit that - even when I was a permie consultant it was a rare treat that I got a project which was commutable and even then it was normally a 90+ minute drive.

What is it with the sudden influx of users declaring themselves "too good" to need to travel about, and pay for accommodation? I can only assume it's people with very little actual consultancy exposure - maybe too many bum on seat commodity contractors working in mainstream fields who think expenses are nothing more than a tax dodge end to end.

Or maybe we lived within easy commuting distance to London and didn't need to stay in hotels and 'travel' was our normal commute and we didn't need to claim any expenses.

When I worked in big 5 consultancy, and prior to that for a niche finance systems software house, then yes I traveled extensively all over Europe and the US dependent upon client needs. This was one of the reasons I left big 5 and went solo, to have more control over when and where I worked. HTH

As for you finding my response naive, insulting and ignorant, that's your problem to deal with fella. I say it as I see it - you can take that as you so choose

[vwdan]

Or maybe we lived within easy commuting distance to London and didn't need to stay in hotels and 'travel' was our normal commute and we didn't need to claim any expenses.

Oh sorry, there's the answer than - everybody should move to London. Did you claim travel expenses?

When I worked in big 5 consultancy, and prior to that for a niche finance systems software house, then yes I traveled extensively all over Europe and the US dependent upon client needs. This was one of the reasons I left big 5 and went solo, to have more control over when and where I worked. HTH

So you accept that travel is a part of consultancy? I mean, you can accept your jobs, but you have to take *some* work.

As for you finding my response naive, insulting and ignorant, that's your problem to deal with fella. I say it as I see it - you can take that as you so choose

It's not so much my problem, as a statement of fact. So you happen to live the near the place where the *vast* majority of contract opportunities are - well done you. But many of us don't. Your response was stupid.

[Whorty]

Oh sorry, there's the answer than - everybody should move to London. Did you claim travel expenses?

Apology accepted

Move to London if you want. No one is stopping you form doing this, only you.

no, I didn't claim travel expenses. I didn't claim lunch either. Only expenses I claimed was professional fees, insurance etc

So you accept that travel is a part of consultancy? I mean, you can accept your jobs, but you have to take *some* work.

I took work I wanted. I rejected work I didn't. I lived in SE London. I took roles in the City and West End. I turned down many roles as the 'travel' was too far, and these were Old St, Hackney, Paddington. This was the choice that contracting gave me.

It's not so much my problem, as a statement of fact. So you happen to live the near the place where the *vast* majority of contract opportunities are - well done you. But many of us don't. Your response was stupid.

It's only a statement of fact to you. To me it's simply your opinion, which you are welcome to, but doesn't make it fact.

Hmm, let's look at this and see who is stupid. Is it me, who bases myself in the market location where my skills are in demand or is it you who bases yourself in a part of the country where work is more limited? I'll give you some free advice, be a bit 'stoopid' like me and move closer to where your prospective clients are .. you never know, you might be a bit more successful

[vwdan]

Apology accepted

Move to London if you want. No one is stopping you form doing this, only you.

no, I didn't claim travel expenses. I didn't claim lunch either. Only expenses I claimed was professional fees, insurance etc


I took work I wanted. I rejected work I didn't. I lived in SE London. I took roles in the City and West End. I turned down many roles as the 'travel' was too far, and these were Old St, Hackney, Paddington. This was the choice that contracting gave me.

Yes, and now the government are ruining some of our choices by moving the goalposts. Previously I could choose to travel, because the hit on my bottom line was reasonable and doable. Wihin IR35, it likely won't be.

It's only a statement of fact to you. To me it's simply your opinion, which you are welcome to, but doesn't make it fact.

Nah, I'm right. It's a fact - your responses have been, and continue to be, ill-conceived and foolish.

Hmm, let's look at this and see who is stupid. Is it me, who bases myself in the market location where my skills are in demand or is it you who bases yourself in a part of the country where work is more limited? I'll give you some free advice, be a bit 'stoopid' like me and move closer to where your prospective clients are .. you never know, you might be a bit more successful

Gotchya, everybody who doesn't live near their (current) clients is a fool. Families, commitments, roots, lives and homes be damned - everybody outside of London is an idiot. You really are, truly, cretinous. Incidentally, most of my permie work was based towards the North and Midlands and my contract work has been all over the place - these things are not easy to judge. And if everybody moves to London, the market simply gets saturated.

[eek]

Apology accepted



I took work I wanted. I rejected work I didn't. I lived in SE London. I took roles in the City and West End. I turned down many roles as the 'travel' was too far, and these were Old St, Hackney, Paddington. This was the choice that contracting gave me.


It's only a statement of fact to you. To me it's simply your opinion, which you are welcome to, but doesn't make it fact.

Hmm, let's look at this and see who is stupid. Is it me, who bases myself in the market location where my skills are in demand or is it you who bases yourself in a part of the country where work is more limited? I'll give you some free advice, be a bit 'stoopid' like me and move closer to where your prospective clients are .. you never know, you might be a bit more successful

I think you've proved my point.

It is the second set of people that are impacted when companies are making blanket policy decision. Now things will probably change over time but for the next year or 2 it's likely to be bleak for a lot of contractors who live outside of London.

As an aside when did you purchase in London. Was it back in the early 1990's when a suitable flat was £70,000 or so or nowadays when its upwards of £500,000..