My ClientCo Just Blanketed Everyone Inside

[rogerfederer]

This doesn't match what I'm hearing from two people. They're joining via what was an agency and is now setting up MSC contractors. They aren't one of the notable household MSC names and certainly not through Cognizant or Tata.

Interesting times. I wonder if it's genuine or leading them up the garden path...

And so it transpired: One person had already started working at Royal London in Manchester two weeks ago. They've been told this is their last day today.

The other has been informed Royal London have taken a blanket approach to any contractor, whether via managed service company or agency: out the door as soon as possible please.

As JMO21 mentioned: They are in process of awarding the contract to Cognizant or Tata.

The reason this matters is because these five people, two of whom I know well, were through a Managed Service Provider with a specific MSP contract with Royal London - this wasn't just an agency commencing places contractors at RL.

If this continues at this pace before April, when the legislation reflects disallowing such blanket determinations, then GhostofTarbera's negativity seems warranted with regards to any future work outside IR35 in the private sector until late 2020 or early 2021.

[Manic]

And so it transpired: One person had already started working at Royal London in Manchester two weeks ago. They've been told this is their last day today.

The other has been informed Royal London have taken a blanket approach to any contractor, whether via managed service company or agency: out the door as soon as possible please.

As JMO21 mentioned: They are in process of awarding the contract to Cognizant or Tata.

The reason this matters is because these five people, two of whom I know well, were through a Managed Service Provider with a specific MSP contract with Royal London - this wasn't just an agency commencing places contractors at RL.

If this continues at this pace before April, when the legislation reflects disallowing such blanket determinations, then GhostofTarbera's negativity seems warranted with regards to any future work outside IR35 in the private sector until late 2020 or early 2021.

Not a determination though, simply a policy decision? Any rules regarding reasonable care around determination do not apply.

[krytonsheep]

The other has been informed Royal London have taken a blanket approach to any contractor.

It's a sad situation, because even if Royal London made a mistake with IR35 and ended up being liable / fined, the cost of that would be insignificant compared to the cost of fixing the mess created by outsourcing to a large IT services company ( obviously depending on what is being outsourced).

[psychocandy]

Some of us have already experienced this "blanket" approach in the public sector.....

Heres what will happen:-

1. Client will say "No more and we're not raising rates"
2. Contractors will think, hmmm more tax, no expenses so I've got to pay for my own hotels etc. Bugger that I'm off.
3. And they will leave in droves. Especially the contractors who don't live locally.
4. Client will think "bugger" what are we going to do we're stuffed.
5. They'll raise the rates by minimum 25% because they have no choice.
6. Still a problem for contractors who live away mon-fri maybe so they'll have to rely on local people.
7. In flood a load of new local contractors. Yes its a pain because the limited goes and you have to work via umbrella but the take home is the same.

OK so when the public sector did it there was more choice for contractors to leave and go to (i.e. all the private sector) but those company who don't take this blanket approach are going to do well out if it all.

[rogerfederer]

Some of us have already experienced this "blanket" approach in the public sector.....

Heres what will happen:-

1. Client will say "No more and we're not raising rates"
2. Contractors will think, hmmm more tax, no expenses so I've got to pay for my own hotels etc. Bugger that I'm off.
3. And they will leave in droves. Especially the contractors who don't live locally.
4. Client will think "bugger" what are we going to do we're stuffed.
5. They'll raise the rates by minimum 25% because they have no choice.
6. Still a problem for contractors who live away mon-fri maybe so they'll have to rely on local people.
7. In flood a load of new local contractors. Yes its a pain because the limited goes and you have to work via umbrella but the take home is the same.

OK so when the public sector did it there was more choice for contractors to leave and go to (i.e. all the private sector) but those company who don't take this blanket approach are going to do well out if it all.

The reason your approach doesn't work is because the get-out clauses for Cognizant, Tata, CGI and the other gangs are quite a lot of cash. Companies are signing 3/4/5 years deals with these people, so these large providers, such as Royal London, won't suddenly be changing their ways in the next year or two as you describe of the Public Sector.

[fullyautomatix]

Forcing the companies to use Tata and Infosys instead of expensive contractors was always the end game for Tories. Those indian companies donate millions for Tories to fight elections.

[fullyautomatix]

Vote Tories and the next expected change will be predictable, relaxing the ICT rules so thousands more cheap bodies can flood in and conquer the IT market.

[CryingSheep]

Some of us have already experienced this "blanket" approach in the public sector.....

Heres what will happen:-

1. Client will say "No more and we're not raising rates"
2. Contractors will think, hmmm more tax, no expenses so I've got to pay for my own hotels etc. Bugger that I'm off.
3. And they will leave in droves. Especially the contractors who don't live locally.
4. Client will think "bugger" what are we going to do we're stuffed.
5. They'll raise the rates by minimum 25% because they have no choice.
6. Still a problem for contractors who live away mon-fri maybe so they'll have to rely on local people.
7. In flood a load of new local contractors. Yes its a pain because the limited goes and you have to work via umbrella but the take home is the same.

OK so when the public sector did it there was more choice for contractors to leave and go to (i.e. all the private sector) but those company who don't take this blanket approach are going to do well out if it all.

Something else that is wrong is that... From what I've been hearing the starting point won't be same rate! Will be a cut of ~25% on rates (to include Employer NIC, 'holidays' and 'pension' - basically client wants to keep the same cost). If you consider the 'holidays' and 'pension' as normal income you will still be looking at around ~10/15% cut (approximately the NIC).

So, MAYBE, if too many contractors reject this they will be forced to offer an 'increase' of 15 to 25% to the initial cut, putting the rate approximately to what it was initially... Forget increases of 25% on the original rates! That won't happen for 90% of the clients!

Also don't forget, vast majority of clients will take similar approach so contractors won't have much choice! And with the amount of contractors in the market someone will eventually accept it, and the worse part is clients are perfectly aware of this and are not shy to say it in your face!

[PCTNN]

Vote Tories and the next expected change will be predictable, relaxing the ICT rules so thousands more cheap bodies can flood in and conquer the IT market.

So tories wanted brexit to stop immigrants from the EU and just replace them with the indians? Makes sense, not unexpected from the tories.

But did they mention the second part to the voters?

Silver lining: the average quality of indian restaurants will improve so much. Farewell, diarrhoea

[Batcher]

And so it transpired: One person had already started working at Royal London in Manchester two weeks ago. They've been told this is their last day today.

The other has been informed Royal London have taken a blanket approach to any contractor, whether via managed service company or agency: out the door as soon as possible please.

As JMO21 mentioned: They are in process of awarding the contract to Cognizant or Tata.

The reason this matters is because these five people, two of whom I know well, were through a Managed Service Provider with a specific MSP contract with Royal London - this wasn't just an agency commencing places contractors at RL.

If this continues at this pace before April, when the legislation reflects disallowing such blanket determinations, then GhostofTarbera's negativity seems warranted with regards to any future work outside IR35 in the private sector until late 2020 or early 2021.

Ahem* "They were pushing the FTC route for a while but now have gone down the Cognizant/TCS route. "

One of the TCS people got binned after a couple of weeks, absolutely useless. He was replaced by another who had never touched the applications used by RL before.

The projects were falling behind the last I heard and all the contractors I knew in there have now left.