Contract renewal falls inside. Confusion ensues.

**eek** · 10 March 2020, 20:25

Originally posted by burnzdog View Post

Hi all,

Have a few questions in regards to reform and how it has now directly effected me.

Contracts up for renewal this month, the new role has been deemed inside of IR35 not by the company but by the agency. So I have no option other than to take the position inside via umbrella. The company won't pay an increase in the day rate so I'm now looking to be earning a bit less.

Few questions:

If I take the new contract does that implicate the validity of the previous contract being outside? Although the role is different?

Should I close the LTD company as existing contract finish at end of month?

Am I right to feel a little hard done by here!?!

Any opinions/ thoughts appreciated

1) Yes it does, what is different about this post April role and now / before.
2) Pass, you may get another outside IR35 contract (and shutting it may not stop HMRC coming knocking in the future)
3) as I tell my children, Life's unfair, deal with it.

**jamesbrown** · 10 March 2020, 20:30

So let me get this straight. The client has issued an SDS that indicates the contract is outside. The agency, as Fee Payer, has refused to accept this.

**burnzdog** · 10 March 2020, 20:38

Originally posted by eek View Post

1) Yes it does, what is different about this post April role and no.
2) Pass, you may get another outside IR35 contract (and shutting it may not stop HMRC coming knocking in the future)
3) as I tell my children, Life's unfair, deal with it.

Post role, different job title. Different project. My concern is that staying at the same company will implicate that my previous role should also have been inside. Not sure what to I can do about this, or whether this make the position untenable for me.

**burnzdog** · 10 March 2020, 20:39

Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post

So let me get this straight. The client has issued an SDS that indicates the contract is outside. The agency, as Fee Payer, has refused to accept this.

Yep pretty much. Agent playing it safe, and they cannot full agree on it being outside.

**jamesbrown** · 10 March 2020, 21:02

Originally posted by burnzdog View Post

Yep pretty much. Agent playing it safe, and they cannot full agree on it being outside.

OK, well get a different agent. The client is the status guard. The Fee Payer is liable, in the first instance. So, yeah, you can understand that some might be nervous, but agents are expendable relative to clients. At the very least, if you have the client SDS to hand and it says outside, then I think you're in an unusual and (much) less risky position than others.

**burnzdog** · 10 March 2020, 21:17

Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post

OK, well get a different agent. The client is the status guard. The Fee Payer is liable, in the first instance. So, yeah, you can understand that some might be nervous, but agents are expendable relative to clients. At the very least, if you have the client SDS to hand and it says outside, then I think you're in an unusual and (much) less risky position than others.

Well I can't use another agent as this guy has exclusivity. Plus the SDS isnt concrete as it's not evidently working in this scenario. I dont mind going inside ir35 but I just don't know how to protect myself for the previous 12 months.

**burnzdog** · 10 March 2020, 21:19

Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post

OK, well get a different agent. The client is the status guard. The Fee Payer is liable, in the first instance. So, yeah, you can understand that some might be nervous, but agents are expendable relative to clients. At the very least, if you have the client SDS to hand and it says outside, then I think you're in an unusual and (much) less risky position than others.

When you say the client is the status guard, they aren't if they have contractual obligations to the agent. For me best case scenario would be for him to release me.

**jamesbrown** · 10 March 2020, 21:30

Originally posted by burnzdog View Post

When you say the client is the status guard, they aren't if they have contractual obligations to the agent. For me best case scenario would be for him to release me.

That's separate though, unrelated to their responsibilities under the forthcoming ITEPA (aka new IR35). If the client doesn't have work for the agent, there's no work for the agent. Client can decide to go with another agent. Regardless, they have responsibilities under ITEPA, as does the Fee Payer.

**GhostofTarbera** · 10 March 2020, 21:39

Originally posted by burnzdog View Post

The company won't pay an increase in the day rate so I'm now looking to be earning a bit less.

Not so, it’s a hell of a lot less (and no expenses) think 40% rate cut to be in ball park

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Contract renewal falls inside. Confusion ensues.