The Law of Unintended Consequences... Covid again...

[vetran]

I resent this inference . We are NOT a cheap labor and we never will be.

Btw. - this German colleague of yours seems to be obsessed with Poland, almost as we are back in 09/1939. Are they planning to come back and finish the job?

That reactionary rag the granuaid disagrees

A mirror vision of industrial failure – the UK lorry trade | Polly Toynbee | Opinion | The Guardian

I spoke to Mick Johnson, an agency driver from Grimsby, who says he finds eastern Europeans at the bottom of the chain, paid Latvian rates of €1.20 an hour, living in their cabs for three months. His union says some foreign drivers’ bonded terms amount to modern slavery. Johnson is in Unite, but 85% of drivers aren’t unionised. “They’re hard to organise,” he says. “Independent types, working alone, who think they can sort it themselves.” He finds many stay with low payers on under £9 an hour, with outfits such as Eddie Stobart notorious for not recognising unions. “But drivers think ‘Better the devil you know,’” he says.

[Lost It]

I resent this inference . We are NOT a cheap labor and we never will be.

Btw. - this German colleague of yours seems to be obsessed with Poland, almost as we are back in 09/1939. Are they planning to come back and finish the job?

All I'll say about Poland is that I'm personally extremely embarrassed it took so long to get the country free again. That's what prompted WW2 as far as the UK was concerned, and we should never ever have accepted that Russia would gain control of Poland. IMO.

However:

Even in the UK for quite a while, especially in the building trade that's exactly how it was. The Polish ground workers came cheaper than the Brits, the Polish chippies were cheaper, the Polish plumbers as well. Fact. Helped to drive down the costs of construction and allowed house builders to pocket huge bonuses.

And it appears that someone somewhere has figured out they can have HGV drivers from Poland for less. Most foreign deliveries that come to my sites are driven by people from Poland, the Czech republic, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania. Must be a reason. Honestly cannot recall the last time I saw a truck deliver to one of my sites with a D plate on it.
When I was working at the BMW Mini Plant at Oxford 4 years ago almost all of the drivers of the JIT trucks were from former "Eastern European" countries. I can only recount what I saw for myself.

Good workers if I'm honest.

[vetran]

All I'll say about Poland is that I'm personally extremely embarrassed it took so long to get the country free again. That's what prompted WW2 as far as the UK was concerned, and we should never ever have accepted that Russia would gain control of Poland. IMO.

However:

Even in the UK for quite a while, especially in the building trade that's exactly how it was. The Polish ground workers came cheaper than the Brits, the Polish chippies were cheaper, the Polish plumbers as well. Fact. Helped to drive down the costs of construction and allowed house builders to pocket huge bonuses.

And it appears that someone somewhere has figured out they can have HGV drivers from Poland for less. Most foreign deliveries that come to my sites are driven by people from Poland, the Czech republic, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania. Must be a reason. Honestly cannot recall the last time I saw a truck deliver to one of my sites with a D plate on it.
When I was working at the BMW Mini Plant at Oxford 4 years ago almost all of the drivers of the JIT trucks were from former "Eastern European" countries. I can only recount what I saw for myself.

Good workers if I'm honest.

Its a pity the Soviets wanted to enslave Poland, not quite sure how the allies could have stopped them at the time. Loads of armchair idiots are sure we should have challenged Stalin to a duel in our weakened state.

When Poland joined the EU their average wage was 1/5th -> 1/7th of ours which is why we had highly qualified Eastern Europeans working in minimum wage jobs

See table 14

https://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default...employment.pdf

having worked in hospitality I doubt 60% of British workers on minimum wage have had post secondary education (well not in 2004 before New lie pushed 16-18 year olds off the unemployment stats.)

No blame is attached of course to those brave enough to come here & work. If someone was willing to pay me £125k to clear tables I would seriously consider it. Those that worked in the UAE in the 80s or Dubai in the 90s worked in stricter conditions but plenty went over there from here.

[mos]

All I'll say about Poland is that I'm personally extremely embarrassed it took so long to get the country free again. That's what prompted WW2 as far as the UK was concerned, and we should never ever have accepted that Russia would gain control of Poland. IMO.

However:

Even in the UK for quite a while, especially in the building trade that's exactly how it was. The Polish ground workers came cheaper than the Brits, the Polish chippies were cheaper, the Polish plumbers as well. Fact. Helped to drive down the costs of construction and allowed house builders to pocket huge bonuses.

.

If its true, then it is due due to propaganda in the media. Prior to 2014 my CV was always considered on merit, and I would always get the top range of advertised remuneration (in my field). All changed after Farage and co. started 2014 campaign to EU Parliament. Repeating (true or made up) stories about Polish people contributes to this propaganda and makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. Stop it!

[vetran]

If its true, then it is due due to propaganda in the media. Prior to 2014 my CV was always considered on merit, and I would always get the top range of advertised remuneration (in my field). All changed after Farage and co. started 2014 campaign to EU Parliament. Repeating (true or made up) stories about Polish people contributes to this propaganda and makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. Stop it!

see the links I posted, the Guardian & JRF are reputable sources.

You may have had a different experience but research & statistics suggest it was true, note the JRF research was 2004.

[mos]

see the links I posted, the Guardian & JRF are reputable sources.

You may have had a different experience but research & statistics suggest it was true, note the JRF research was 2004.

Yes. there was a lot of cr@p going around in 2004, just before Poland joined EU, I was watching the BBC. As for Guardian, I find them to be every bit as hostile towards Polish people as Daily Mail, perhaps with slightly different twist. They still seem to uphold combined Prussian/Stalinist line on how so called "eastern Europe" should be run.

[Lost It]

If its true, then it is due due to propaganda in the media. Prior to 2014 my CV was always considered on merit, and I would always get the top range of advertised remuneration (in my field). All changed after Farage and co. started 2014 campaign to EU Parliament. Repeating (true or made up) stories about Polish people contributes to this propaganda and makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. Stop it!

Well this self fulfilling prophesy is biting everyone in the back side now isn't it.

Truth is they were used, many in the building trade were told their qualifications were worth nothing (as happened in Germany as I understand it) and started again. True spirit. You have to respect that. Hard workers and most of them family men too.

And now, many of them have moved back home because the labour rates within the construction industry and the job market over there was booming. In fact I was invited over there. One of the "I wish I'd" things.

Of course I'm only seeing it from the industry I work in. Might be somewhat biased.

[vetran]

Well this self fulfilling prophesy is biting everyone in the back side now isn't it.

Truth is they were used, many in the building trade were told their qualifications were worth nothing (as happened in Germany as I understand it) and started again. True spirit. You have to respect that. Hard workers and most of them family men too.

And now, many of them have moved back home because the labour rates within the construction industry and the job market over there was booming. In fact I was invited over there. One of the "I wish I'd" things.

Of course I'm only seeing it from the industry I work in. Might be somewhat biased.

Indeed they were used by business to drive wages down,it wasn't their fault they were just doing what any reasonable person would have done in their place, when workers complained they were branded racists by the Islington set. We now have lower wages, lower tax take and more benefit claims there is no cash left for the Government to spend.

Its also astonishing to see how my generation are far inferior to my father's generation in response to adversity. We have become comfortable, the Polish and others aren't, they are still willing to get their hands dirty.

[original PM]

I think Macron is liking the extra power ( well until his mum tells him it's bedtime)

In France, it’s now a crime to talk to your neighbour - spiked

[darmstadt]

I think Macron is liking the extra power ( well until his mum tells him it's bedtime)

In France, it’s now a crime to talk to your neighbour - spiked

We must carry a signed and dated form, ticking the reason we have left the house. Anyone without the form or without a reason will be fined.
In my village in south-west France, the square yesterday morning was full of last-minute shoppers, getting their purchases in before the doors were locked shut.

Doesn't the author of this piece live in London?