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Why do we continue to use a HMRC term that are actually incorrect

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    Why do we continue to use a HMRC term that are actually incorrect

    Hi all

    I have wandered in and out of ContractorUK for many a year but only just joined.

    One of the things I am astonished with is that people are too easily led into using terms that are actually designed to "catch them out" for want of a better word, an example of this, is the use of the term PSC. It gauls me beyond belief that people will use an acronym specifically designed to classify something as something it is not.

    PSC, was a term that was first introduced by HMRC as a way of referring to a contractors Limited Company. By defining it as a "Personal Service Company" they immediately cast you iinto one of "their pots" ... and if you actually start referring to it as such... you are effectively, admitting that your company is only ever really going to be just you and your personal service.... madness.

    The thing that annoys me about it is that, there is no such thing in companies house.... you cannot register a company as a PSC, there is no such "type" of company yet, agents love to use the term (especially when writing contracts if they can) End Clients now try to use the term.... and here, we regularly use it.. why? Terminology designed by HMRC... to basically... catch you out.

    I was once negotiating a contract with a rather large agent, who provided HR services for a rather large international financial institution, and they had written a contract, which referred to my company as a PSC, throughout the contract. I immediately refused to sign it and was asked why and I said as above, that no such thing exists. The agent was most upset and said "are you telling me that your company could employ other people then?" to which I said "Yes if I so wish, it can"... The underlying client wanted my services and the contract was rewritten...

    what I am trying to say is, why use a term that will actually limit you... (or indeed your defence in claiming that a role was outside IR35 for example)

    #2
    Originally posted by SmudgerUK View Post
    Hi all

    I have wandered in and out of ContractorUK for many a year but only just joined.

    One of the things I am astonished with is that people are too easily led into using terms that are actually designed to "catch them out" for want of a better word, an example of this, is the use of the term PSC. It gauls me beyond belief that people will use an acronym specifically designed to classify something as something it is not.

    PSC, was a term that was first introduced by HMRC as a way of referring to a contractors Limited Company. By defining it as a "Personal Service Company" they immediately cast you iinto one of "their pots" ... and if you actually start referring to it as such... you are effectively, admitting that your company is only ever really going to be just you and your personal service.... madness.

    The thing that annoys me about it is that, there is no such thing in companies house.... you cannot register a company as a PSC, there is no such "type" of company yet, agents love to use the term (especially when writing contracts if they can) End Clients now try to use the term.... and here, we regularly use it.. why? Terminology designed by HMRC... to basically... catch you out.

    I was once negotiating a contract with a rather large agent, who provided HR services for a rather large international financial institution, and they had written a contract, which referred to my company as a PSC, throughout the contract. I immediately refused to sign it and was asked why and I said as above, that no such thing exists. The agent was most upset and said "are you telling me that your company could employ other people then?" to which I said "Yes if I so wish, it can"... The underlying client wanted my services and the contract was rewritten...

    what I am trying to say is, why use a term that will actually limit you... (or indeed your defence in claiming that a role was outside IR35 for example)


    We know.

    https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2742006

    We’ve known for years.

    But we’ve given up trying to explain that nuance to newbies. The posts would become long, tedious, repetitive and boring*.




    *Even more than they are now.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by SmudgerUK View Post
      Hi all

      I have wandered in and out of ContractorUK for many a year but only just joined.

      One of the things I am astonished with is that people are too easily led into using terms that are actually designed to "catch them out" for want of a better word, an example of this, is the use of the term PSC. It gauls me beyond belief that people will use an acronym specifically designed to classify something as something it is not.
      Try being here a few more years. Eventually you will get used to really stupid people and wonder how they manage to secure a job, let alone a contract.

      On some levels, the 2020(2021) changes are long overdue.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
        Try being here a few more years. Eventually you will get used to really stupid people and wonder how they manage to secure a job, let alone a contract.

        On some levels, the 2020(2021) changes are long overdue.
        You are so ****ed.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for that. Don't let the door smash you on the way out to the Professional area.
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by SmudgerUK View Post
            Hi all

            I have wandered in and out of ContractorUK for many a year but only just joined.

            One of the things I am astonished with is that people are too easily led into using terms that are actually designed to "catch them out" for want of a better word, an example of this, is the use of the term PSC. It gauls me beyond belief that people will use an acronym specifically designed to classify something as something it is not.

            PSC, was a term that was first introduced by HMRC as a way of referring to a contractors Limited Company. By defining it as a "Personal Service Company" they immediately cast you iinto one of "their pots" ... and if you actually start referring to it as such... you are effectively, admitting that your company is only ever really going to be just you and your personal service.... madness.

            The thing that annoys me about it is that, there is no such thing in companies house.... you cannot register a company as a PSC, there is no such "type" of company yet, agents love to use the term (especially when writing contracts if they can) End Clients now try to use the term.... and here, we regularly use it.. why? Terminology designed by HMRC... to basically... catch you out.

            I was once negotiating a contract with a rather large agent, who provided HR services for a rather large international financial institution, and they had written a contract, which referred to my company as a PSC, throughout the contract. I immediately refused to sign it and was asked why and I said as above, that no such thing exists. The agent was most upset and said "are you telling me that your company could employ other people then?" to which I said "Yes if I so wish, it can"... The underlying client wanted my services and the contract was rewritten...

            what I am trying to say is, why use a term that will actually limit you... (or indeed your defence in claiming that a role was outside IR35 for example)
            i wish i wuz clever like you is
            "A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices," George Orwell

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Paddy View Post
              i wish i wuz clever like you is
              I've got a cat that's more clever than you. In fact it's borderline whether or not one of the cat's turds has more intelligence than your good self.
              Old Greg - In search of acceptance since Mar 2007. Hoping each leap will be his last.

              Comment


                #8
                galls

                There's inneresting then.
                When the fun stops, STOP.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Zigenare View Post
                  I've got a cat that's more clever than you. In fact it's borderline whether or not one of the cat's turds has more intelligence than your good self.
                  Get help with anger - NHS
                  "A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices," George Orwell

                  Comment

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