• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Speaking the truth here, IR35, contract to perm. What everyone is thinking...

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #21
    Originally posted by elsergiovolador View Post
    I always have a laugh when a company offers "free lunch", "gym membership" or "private healthcare plan".

    This means that probably staff is underpaid and can't afford these.
    Yeah probably. They cost the company very little and have even less value for the employee.

    Look at the premium on the private healthcare plan, it's probably less than 500 a year. Do you know anyone who has ever used it? Gym membership probably only has 10-20% uptake at most so that's like probably 400 a year but cost per employee of like 80. Free lunch can vary, some reimburse, some have full kitchens on site, some cater. It is probably the only real benefit of the group that has any real monetary value. I had one employer that gave me 10 a day, that was many years ago. That is a good 2500 a year and was used.

    Real benefits are things like car allowances or generous time off policies, generous insurances that people might actually use, high pension contributions, etc. Things with real monetary value to the employee.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by elsergiovolador View Post
      I always have a laugh when a company offers "free lunch", "gym membership" or "private healthcare plan".

      This means that probably staff is underpaid and can't afford these.

      You always laugh at the things you don't understand.
      Those benefits tend to mean the company has worked out it can get a better deal than the individual can, and that it can put through those benefits to the individuals who will value them for more than they are worth.
      Also, with the likes of private health, it means that if an employee becomes ill, they will receive treatment and be back at work sooner.

      Do you have private health through your Ltd?
      Is it because you can't afford it yourself?
      …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by elsergiovolador View Post
        I always have a laugh when a company offers "free lunch", "gym membership" or "private healthcare plan".

        This means that probably staff is underpaid and can't afford these.
        Free lunch/food - we don't give you sufficient breaks so you can go buy your own

        Gym membership - we will pretend to keep you healthy while over working you.

        Private healthcare plan - when you are sick we want you back asap as we can't wait for the NHS.
        "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

        Comment


          #24
          Should add I've been in companies that have yoga classes and masseurs come in. It meant they could help prevent injuries in their employees who cycled in or played football with other company people.
          "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by jayn200 View Post
            Yeah probably. They cost the company very little and have even less value for the employee.

            Look at the premium on the private healthcare plan, it's probably less than 500 a year. Do you know anyone who has ever used it?
            Yep in previous spells of permiedom I have two minor operations done on the company.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
              played football with other company people.
              Oh how we laughed when Alun got a nail stuck in his foot whilst playing football at lunchtime.

              Originally posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
              Yep in previous spells of permiedom I have two minor operations done on the company.
              Alan was univerally know as "Toe" when he had his ingrowing toenails done after working at the company a whole week.
              When the fun stops, STOP.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
                Should add I've been in companies that have yoga classes and masseurs come in. It meant they could help prevent injuries in their employees who cycled in or played football with other company people.
                I've worked at two well known global companies that had a subsidised visiting onsite masseuse. One was £10 or £15 ph, the other was about £25. I used the latter every month when I was a perm during working hours and nobody batted an eyelid. That company paid absolutely top whack and massive bonuses too. Sometimes these benefits are really useful, the same company used to give subsidised gym membership at £40-80pm less than the normal rate. A lot of people took it up.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post
                  I believe I owe this to the people on the bench here, applying to every role they can find, struggling and loosing hope and just wishing they can put food of the table and not feel excluded from this odd society.
                  Also I have seen people getting paranoid on this forum about "a blacklist" existing between agencies and people being excluded from roles. While there might be some truth to it, it's not that obvious...

                  What I've said also in other posts is that one of the main reasons contractors struggle to transition into permanent role is because the conversation has become a lot about "cultural fit". I will add more detail later.

                  I was slightly concerned by it but it become obvious to me today when I've listened to a podcast: Foundering: The WeWork Story.
                  As a short summary, they dig into the story of how WeWork has become a success and it's demise. I haven't completed listening to it but might add upon it later...
                  Overall, the people that were hired were underpaid and overworked with some pointless benefits given to them from time to time. Great emphasis on people not motivated by money but by the mission and "what they do".
                  There were some examples but a remarkable one was "summer camp" where the company would go to unusual lengths to provide some cheap meaningless entertainment to the people. Even fly them in form across continents.
                  Employees would do drugs and listen to "The Game" while probably being paid minimum wage and having to work unpaid extra hours.
                  There was a particular emphasis on finding the right people. (there is more to it please listen to podcast)
                  The same culture was promoted to the investors that would provide the space(which should have been their primary business, but not so...) and people would be encouraged to put up a show every time there was an investor in.
                  They had even a name for it when investors would be around and the beer taps would be put forward and everyone would get into party mode.

                  While those practices are to be expected, what worries me more is that they were so successful, not only with the odd freelancer but with mature companies that have been in the field for some time.

                  Which leads me to the initial idea:
                  The conversation has become a lot about manageable employee. They might put some emphasis on technical ability but overall is cultural fit and what the manager perceives as a manageable employee that gets someone the role.
                  So if they thing they could push you the extra mile while you are still gullible and do not complain, you are in the game.

                  A lot of managers think that, while technical ability is good, the challenges you might face might not require only that. It might require hard work and dedication. So they always hire gullible and manageable corporate stooges. That talk the right talk.
                  It could be that they don't like the tone on your voice, that you sell yourself too much as an independent consultant. Or any other biases that the hiring manager might have. You are just left out of the game.

                  I've been through quite a few technical challenges, while I have not been the best at them. I believe that I have been decent enough and showed I have the right skills for the role.
                  They were never interested in that. It is more of a monopolised approach of talking you down. Wearing you out. It is pure nonsense.
                  But I also believe that I've always been a free person, and I am quite honest and upfront. They do not like that tulip.

                  I am not sure how we can changes this, but if you'd like your offsprings to be corporate stooges, hired for being brainwashed and owning a skateboard. I believe it would be high time we do something about it.
                  It is no longer a free word. It is getting so messed up that I am contemplating moving to a remote place and spending my whole life there....

                  Maybe a lot of you are thinking that I am spitting rubbish but I do believe that this is the actual truth. And it is what will stand behind the next civil war this civilisation will face.
                  Unless they will make up a war with China or some other nonsense... will see how it goes.
                  I would disagree with most of what you say.

                  WeWork will become a business school case study for decades to come as a disastrous company for so many reasons. I don't think it's genuinely typical of that many companies.

                  There is increasing research that absolute technical/functional ability(not specifically IT) is overrated and softer skills are becoming ever more important including ability to work in teams, work remotely and in flatter non-hierarchical structures. That's why cultural fit is important but it's poorly and subjectively defined by most organisations and hiring managers. What they often mean is 'people like me.'

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
                    Yep in previous spells of permiedom I have two minor operations done on the company.
                    Surprised you were able to claim anything through private. Was it because the wait list was too long on NHS? Maybe I've just had tulipty policies in the past.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      If you're a contractor going perm, the hardest thing that you'll face is your status.

                      Why would they take what they see as a risk on a contractor going perm until the transition to the long-term new normal is complete then watch you jump ship because the contract market has picked up again over an equally-qualified perm whose only reason for availability was because of their employers going bust during the current crisis? I'll save you answering - they wouldn't. The hardest part of my interview for my first perm job in ten years was convincing them that I wanted to stay perm. Easy for me, I genuinely do at this stage of my life but longer term who knows?
                      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X