• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Speaking the truth here, IR35, contract to perm. What everyone is thinking...

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Speaking the truth here, IR35, contract to perm. What everyone is thinking...

    I believe I owe this to the people on the bench here, applying to every role they can find, struggling and loosing hope and just wishing they can put food of the table and not feel excluded from this odd society.
    Also I have seen people getting paranoid on this forum about "a blacklist" existing between agencies and people being excluded from roles. While there might be some truth to it, it's not that obvious...

    What I've said also in other posts is that one of the main reasons contractors struggle to transition into permanent role is because the conversation has become a lot about "cultural fit". I will add more detail later.

    I was slightly concerned by it but it become obvious to me today when I've listened to a podcast: Foundering: The WeWork Story.
    As a short summary, they dig into the story of how WeWork has become a success and it's demise. I haven't completed listening to it but might add upon it later...
    Overall, the people that were hired were underpaid and overworked with some pointless benefits given to them from time to time. Great emphasis on people not motivated by money but by the mission and "what they do".
    There were some examples but a remarkable one was "summer camp" where the company would go to unusual lengths to provide some cheap meaningless entertainment to the people. Even fly them in form across continents.
    Employees would do drugs and listen to "The Game" while probably being paid minimum wage and having to work unpaid extra hours.
    There was a particular emphasis on finding the right people. (there is more to it please listen to podcast)
    The same culture was promoted to the investors that would provide the space(which should have been their primary business, but not so...) and people would be encouraged to put up a show every time there was an investor in.
    They had even a name for it when investors would be around and the beer taps would be put forward and everyone would get into party mode.

    While those practices are to be expected, what worries me more is that they were so successful, not only with the odd freelancer but with mature companies that have been in the field for some time.

    Which leads me to the initial idea:
    The conversation has become a lot about manageable employee. They might put some emphasis on technical ability but overall is cultural fit and what the manager perceives as a manageable employee that gets someone the role.
    So if they thing they could push you the extra mile while you are still gullible and do not complain, you are in the game.

    A lot of managers think that, while technical ability is good, the challenges you might face might not require only that. It might require hard work and dedication. So they always hire gullible and manageable corporate stooges. That talk the right talk.
    It could be that they don't like the tone on your voice, that you sell yourself too much as an independent consultant. Or any other biases that the hiring manager might have. You are just left out of the game.

    I've been through quite a few technical challenges, while I have not been the best at them. I believe that I have been decent enough and showed I have the right skills for the role.
    They were never interested in that. It is more of a monopolised approach of talking you down. Wearing you out. It is pure nonsense.
    But I also believe that I've always been a free person, and I am quite honest and upfront. They do not like that tulip.

    I am not sure how we can changes this, but if you'd like your offsprings to be corporate stooges, hired for being brainwashed and owning a skateboard. I believe it would be high time we do something about it.
    It is no longer a free word. It is getting so messed up that I am contemplating moving to a remote place and spending my whole life there....

    Maybe a lot of you are thinking that I am spitting rubbish but I do believe that this is the actual truth. And it is what will stand behind the next civil war this civilisation will face.
    Unless they will make up a war with China or some other nonsense... will see how it goes.
    Last edited by GigiBronz; 30 July 2020, 21:52.

    #2
    Jesus’s , that’s 2 mins of my life I will never get back, pointless gibberish

    Apologies if you are drunk, you will need to wait till I’m drunk to reread


    Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

    Comment


      #3
      Inneresting.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
        Jesus’s , that’s 2 mins of my life I will never get back, pointless gibberish
        That is an intrinsic part of the nature of minutes.

        Comment


          #5
          Culture fit is bulltulip for sure but you hear about it less and less. I did a bunch of interviews for perm roles this last year in anticipation of ir35 reform and got a couple offers. I only encountered 2 organizations that talked about culture fit. The rest were mostly interested in either my tech skills or how I would approach managing whatever department or function (I interviewed for a range of roles). I probably had face to face interviews at about 15-20 places so that's probably about 10% that had an environment like you describe.

          More and more hiring responsibility is falling onto line managers and away from HR. Culture fit is dying out.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by GhostofTarbera View Post
            Jesus’s , that’s 2 mins of my life I will never get back, pointless gibberish

            Apologies if you are drunk, you will need to wait till I’m drunk to reread
            Contractor UK Forum
            You are not wrong about that... but that is when people talk truth.

            Comment


              #7
              Coke binge?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post
                I've been through quite a few technical challenges, while I have not been the best at them. I believe that I have been decent enough and showed I have the right skills for the role.
                There will always be plenty of opportunities for someone with your skills.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post
                  I believe I owe this to the people on the bench here, applying to every role they can find, struggling and loosing hope and just wishing they can put food of the table and not feel excluded from this odd society.
                  Also I have seen people getting paranoid on this forum about "a blacklist" existing between agencies and people being excluded from roles. While there might be some truth to it, it's not that obvious...

                  What I've said also in other posts is that one of the main reasons contractors struggle to transition into permanent role is because the conversation has become a lot about "cultural fit". I will add more detail later.

                  I was slightly concerned by it but it become obvious to me today when I've listened to a podcast: Foundering: The WeWork Story.
                  As a short summary, they dig into the story of how WeWork has become a success and it's demise. I haven't completed listening to it but might add upon it later...
                  Overall, the people that were hired were underpaid and overworked with some pointless benefits given to them from time to time. Great emphasis on people not motivated by money but by the mission and "what they do".
                  There were some examples but a remarkable one was "summer camp" where the company would go to unusual lengths to provide some cheap meaningless entertainment to the people. Even fly them in form across continents.
                  Employees would do drugs and listen to "The Game" while probably being paid minimum wage and having to work unpaid extra hours.
                  There was a particular emphasis on finding the right people. (there is more to it please listen to podcast)
                  The same culture was promoted to the investors that would provide the space(which should have been their primary business, but not so...) and people would be encouraged to put up a show every time there was an investor in.
                  They had even a name for it when investors would be around and the beer taps would be put forward and everyone would get into party mode.

                  While those practices are to be expected, what worries me more is that they were so successful, not only with the odd freelancer but with mature companies that have been in the field for some time.

                  Which leads me to the initial idea:
                  The conversation has become a lot about manageable employee. They might put some emphasis on technical ability but overall is cultural fit and what the manager perceives as a manageable employee that gets someone the role.
                  So if they thing they could push you the extra mile while you are still gullible and do not complain, you are in the game.

                  A lot of managers think that, while technical ability is good, the challenges you might face might not require only that. It might require hard work and dedication. So they always hire gullible and manageable corporate stooges. That talk the right talk.
                  It could be that they don't like the tone on your voice, that you sell yourself too much as an independent consultant. Or any other biases that the hiring manager might have. You are just left out of the game.

                  I've been through quite a few technical challenges, while I have not been the best at them. I believe that I have been decent enough and showed I have the right skills for the role.
                  They were never interested in that. It is more of a monopolised approach of talking you down. Wearing you out. It is pure nonsense.
                  But I also believe that I've always been a free person, and I am quite honest and upfront. They do not like that tulip.

                  I am not sure how we can changes this, but if you'd like your offsprings to be corporate stooges, hired for being brainwashed and owning a skateboard. I believe it would be high time we do something about it.
                  It is no longer a free word. It is getting so messed up that I am contemplating moving to a remote place and spending my whole life there....

                  Maybe a lot of you are thinking that I am spitting rubbish but I do believe that this is the actual truth. And it is what will stand behind the next civil war this civilisation will face.
                  Unless they will make up a war with China or some other nonsense... will see how it goes.
                  You have too much time on your hands...

                  "A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices," George Orwell

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Old Greg View Post

                    That is an intrinsic part of the nature of minutes.
                    Exactly. If it wasn't for minutes everything would happen all at once, and we wouldn't be able to keep up!

                    I've never had any problem merging in with permie teams, like a chamelion, and vice versa as a consistent record of contract renewals attests.

                    My only issue with going to the dark side is the "bridge burning" aspect, in that employment contracts often require one's PSC to be dissolved.
                    Work in the public sector? Read the IR35 FAQ here

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X