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revisionism is well under way.

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    #11
    Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
    Repeatedly asserting a position isn't an explanation.
    Oh sorry as I said I am out of crayons, I would of course expect you to find it challenging.

    Let us try again. Museums should teach history, censoring it is not in the job description. Do you think otherwise?
    Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

    Comment


      #12
      Originally posted by vetran View Post
      Museums should teach history, censoring it is not in the job description. Do you think otherwise?
      Yes, I do think otherwise.
      Parents and teachers should teach history. A museum does not replace teaching.
      Should the Imperial War Museum declare that the firebombing Dresden didn’t happen?
      Is Bloody Sunday something that Britain should be proud of?

      As for your snowflakey wail that it’s “revisionism”, that’s only if they are putting up notices saying “this never happened”. But hey, we live in the right wing nightmare Orwell talked about where Newspeak is the new normal.
      …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

      Comment


        #13
        Originally posted by vetran View Post
        Oh sorry as I said I am out of crayons, I would of course expect you to find it challenging.

        Let us try again. Museums should teach history, censoring it is not in the job description. Do you think otherwise?
        Again you're just restating your position that it's revisionism. Just using different words.

        Removing an exhibit is not censoring. Museums can't show everything. Perhaps you think that the fact that the Natural History Museum has 80 million items in its collection and only shows a tiny fraction of those is "censoring". Perhaps they're hiding the ban the bomb sign held by a dinosaur fossil!
        Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by WTFH View Post
          Yes, I do think otherwise.
          Parents and teachers should teach history. A museum does not replace teaching.
          Should the Imperial War Museum declare that the firebombing Dresden didn’t happen?
          Is Bloody Sunday something that Britain should be proud of?

          As for your snowflakey wail that it’s “revisionism”, that’s only if they are putting up notices saying “this never happened”. But hey, we live in the right wing nightmare Orwell talked about where Newspeak is the new normal.
          Goodness you are small minded sometimes. Because a Museum teaches that does not mean no one else does. Everyday is a schoolday. duh!

          If you aren't aware both the occurrences you mention are hotly contested and more information will help people make their decision, though from the tone of your questions your mind is already made up.

          Do you believe Bomber Harris=Bad, Hitler=good. British Army=Murderers, IRA = nice chaps to drink tea with. Are you Jezzybell Corbyn?

          The Imperial war museum should teach the situation as it was.
          Was the Firebombing of Dresden justified because of its strategic position?
          Was it a mistake like Hitler not pushing more at Dunkirk? Or the failure on some assaults during the war?
          Was it less or more inhumane than continuous V1 or V2 bombardments?
          Did the Americans who supplied many of the Planes & personnel unwilling to take as many casualties as the other Allied forces insist on a softer target?
          What would have happened if it hadn't taken place?

          etc.

          so many questions raised there. No real answers until you think about them.

          Bloody Sunday is something for very few people to be proud of but as we now know the IRA wanted to provoke a disaster and some people even believe that well known terrorist Martin McGuinness initiated it.

          McGuinness 'said he sparked Bloody Sunday' | UK news | The Guardian

          A classified message of May 15, 1984, sent to the RUC, Northern Ireland Office and the British embassy in Dublin, read: "Speaking in confidence, a leading member of the Provisional IRA who no longer has access to the organisation commented that Martin McGuinness personally fired the shot (from a Thompson machine gun on 'single shot') from Rossville flats in Bogside that precipitated the Bloody Sunday episode."
          My point proven then. The presence of all the evidence is something that Museums should do to provoke discussion. If we were ashamed (as the Museum seem to be of their shrunken heads) then we would never lean from history. Lying by omission is still lying.
          Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

          Comment


            #15
            Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
            Again you're just restating your position that it's revisionism. Just using different words.

            Removing an exhibit is not censoring. Museums can't show everything. Perhaps you think that the fact that the Natural History Museum has 80 million items in its collection and only shows a tiny fraction of those is "censoring". Perhaps they're hiding the ban the bomb sign held by a dinosaur fossil!

            Again you are making tulip up. They have stated that they removed the exhibit because they thought that the exhibits

            An Oxford museum has removed shrunken heads made by an Amazon headhunting tribe after bosses said exhibiting human remains 'reinforces racist and stereotypical thinking'.The famed Pitt Rivers Museum took down the collection, alongside 113 other human remains, ahead of its reopening on 22 September following the Covid-19 lockdown.
            It comes after the museum's director, Dr Laura Van Broekhoven, said the displays go against its 'core values' after a study showed they depicted other cultures as 'savage, primitive or gruesome'.
            So they haven't made space for 13th century Morris Dancing they removed it because they don't agree with it.

            censor[ˈsɛnsə]




            VERB

            censoring (present participle)
            • examine (a book, film, etc.) officially and suppress unacceptable parts of it.




            So yes removing an exhibit because you don't agree with the truth it tells is censorship.
            Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

            Comment


              #16
              Originally posted by vetran View Post
              Do you believe Bomber Harris=Bad, Hitler=good. British Army=Murderers, IRA = nice chaps to drink tea with. Are you Jezzybell Corbyn?
              No. Do you believe the Daily Mail? Do you think everything is binary?

              Originally posted by vetran View Post
              My point proven then.
              No, you've failed to make a point.

              Originally posted by vetran View Post
              The presence of all the evidence is something that Museums should do to provoke discussion. If we were ashamed (as the Museum seem to be of their shrunken heads) then we would never lean from history. Lying by omission is still lying.
              You introduce the word "ashamed", then rush down your slippery slope to say that it is lying.
              Did you actually read what the museum did and why, or just the headline?
              The museum have moved many human remains from display and put them in storage. They have over 500,000 artefacts and don't display all of them.
              Some of the ones they removed had historic labels on them that used racist language, were stolen, or are considered sacred by indigenous peoples.

              "This difficult history has led the museum to engage more closely in acknowledging its past practices and the nature of its collecting, display and interpretation and the effects those have today"
              …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                As for your snowflakey wail that it’s “revisionism”,
                It's the snowflakes who are driving this, not complaining about it. The idea that museums should not display anything people might find offensive... displaying something is not the same as endorsing it.

                For instance animal specimens that were donated by hunters, ivory, etc. Should those be removed since they endorse/legitimise the illegal ivory trade? Or should information be displayed as part of the exhibit about the ivory trade?

                Virtually all of England's colonial history has racist overtones. A lot of history in general is about wars - often motivated by religion or race. Museums are going to end up rather empty.

                If an exhibit has perceived links to something our culture views distasteful, it's a chance to educate. To learn from history, not hide it. Put a display next to the heads. Paste 'trigger warnings' for the faint of heart.
                Originally posted by MaryPoppins
                I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
                Originally posted by vetran
                Urine is quite nourishing

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                  No. Do you believe the Daily Mail? Do you think everything is binary?
                  no but you seem to think everything is binary with your examples.


                  Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                  No, you've failed to make a point.
                  No you failed to understand it


                  Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                  You introduce the word "ashamed", then rush down your slippery slope to say that it is lying.
                  Ashamed is the opposite of proud the word you introduced, as I explained lying by omission is still lying.


                  Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                  Did you actually read what the museum did and why, or just the headline?
                  The museum have moved many human remains from display and put them in storage. They have over 500,000 artefacts and don't display all of them.
                  Some of the ones they removed had historic labels on them that used racist language, were stolen, or are considered sacred by indigenous peoples.

                  "This difficult history has led the museum to engage more closely in acknowledging its past practices and the nature of its collecting, display and interpretation and the effects those have today"

                  Yet I quoted the museum saying repeatedly that they had decided to not display the remains because they believed they were unacceptable because of the emotions they believed they induced. Do try reading the article.

                  Originally posted by WTFH View Post
                  Some of the ones they removed had historic labels on them that used racist language, were stolen, or are considered sacred by indigenous peoples.
                  Now that makes sense fixing those should be a priority.
                  Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
                    It's the snowflakes who are driving this, not complaining about it. The idea that museums should not display anything people might find offensive... displaying something is not the same as endorsing it.
                    No, there's a bigger fuss from the snowflakes complaining about anything that changes away from their opinion.

                    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
                    For instance animal specimens that were donated by hunters, ivory, etc. Should those be removed since they endorse/legitimise the illegal ivory trade? Or should information be displayed as part of the exhibit about the ivory trade?
                    Do you have examples of museums that have removed all reference to the ivory trade? Or is it just a snowflake reaction that you believe every single piece of ivory has been removed from every single museum because someone who wasn't as right wing as you complained?

                    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
                    A lot of history in general is about wars - often motivated by religion or race.
                    Let's hope that civilisation has moved on and that countries aren't full of people who hate "others" due to their perceived religion or their race.

                    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
                    Museums are going to end up rather empty.
                    A museum that has 500,000 artefacts isn't going to be empty any time soon.

                    Originally posted by d000hg View Post
                    If an exhibit has perceived links to something our culture views distasteful, it's a chance to educate. To learn from history, not hide it. Put a display next to the heads. Paste 'trigger warnings' for the faint of heart.
                    Do you think that British people have been educated to understand why certain views are distasteful, or is any education like that something that you would say is evil left wing "snowflakes" and we must stick to some Victorian dream that never really existed?
                    …Maybe we ain’t that young anymore

                    Comment


                      #20
                      I'm guessing that some of the posters here would have no objection to a Museum of Modern White Child Abusers, that told the truth about white people who have abused children. And they would object to any attempt to change it as censorship.

                      Comment

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