Can remote work be the silver bullet for outside IR35?

[northernladuk]

No, and if anything the more permies WFH the more it dilutes the argument

I believe either Grant Thornton (or it may be EY) are currently using this exact argument to justify recharging clients for the IR35 "work" they did last year.

Equally I suspect the working at home bit is going to be given far less weight now everyone does it.

Both the above. The world has changed in the last 6 months. There will be a raft of new solutions to support WFH that will completely change the outlook so will be next to useless as a measure as it stands now. I'm sure there will be an attempt to clarrify it in the future but trying to use WFH or remote to client as an IR35 point is next to utterly pointless just now.



But given the OP's beligerence when asking a question and then endlessly floundering with his point even though he's had it clearly explained to him I expect this will be a long thread.

[anim]

So it's not remote work - you are renting an office.

And it's a very niche case that I suspect wouldn't survive a close inspection

Call it what you like.
It is so simple that it will 100% survive any inspection.
Sorry for dampening your usual effort to just say 'no, it cant be done' without even thinking

[WTFH]

How so? I dont thing where the permies work has anything to do?

The argument is based around "what is the difference between what you do and what a permie does?"

When the permies were expected to go into the office every day, but contractors negotiated to work from home, then the location could be seen as a distinction.
Over the last few months, businesses have discovered that their permanent staff are capable of working from home, so that distinction of location no longer applies.

As for your first comment that you put in bold, the client is not forcing you to rent an office, you are choosing to do that. If someone was to investigate and discover that:
1. You rent an office specifically near your "client", that would show an intention on your part to be based there, rather than based from home (or somewhere not closely associated with the client)
2. You rent the office but don't use it
3. Your definition of renting a co-working space is suitably vague that it is unclear whether you mean you have a desk in an office that you pay to use 7 days per week, 300+ days per year, or that you have a hot-desk meeting room that may be available to you to rent as and when you need it, or that you are using a room in a property that isn't an office as such.

[eek]

Call it what you like.
It is so simple that it will 100% survive any inspection.
Sorry for dampening your usual effort to just say 'no, it cant be done' without even thinking

It won't - as from April the client decides the determination.

This is no different from the (second) crappy substitution scheme I saw earlier today - you are trying to fix problems that no longer exist.

[anim]

Both the above. The world has changed in the last 6 months. There will be a raft of new solutions to support WFH that will completely change the outlook so will be next to useless as a measure as it stands now. I'm sure there will be an attempt to clarrify it in the future but trying to use WFH or remote to client as an IR35 point is next to utterly pointless just now.



But given the OP's beligerence when asking a question and then endlessly floundering with his point even though he's had it clearly explained to him I expect this will be a long thread.

Right. I put this in general to be able to tell to feck off. Well, feck off.
It is not me, it is HMRC's tool that gave me outside det.

[WTFH]

It is not me, it is HMRC's tool that gave me outside det.

Based on how you chose to answer the questions, which may well not be honest and may well not be how your employer (sorry, "client") would answer.

[anim]

It won't - as from April the client decides the determination.

Thanks captain obvious.
And how is this form filled by the client going to differ when they fill in the same answers?
Yes, the one with the rented office too.

[anim]

Based on how you chose to answer the questions, which may well not be honest and may well not be how your employer (sorry, "client") would answer.

I already said it 100% true and correct and following WP.

[vwdan]

Thanks captain obvious.
And how is this form filled by the client going to differ when they fill in the same answers?
Yes, the one with the rented office too.

I've already pointed out at least one question you've answered incorrectly. Unless you don't consider yourself an expert, of course.

[anim]

I've already pointed out at least one question you've answered incorrectly. Unless you don't consider yourself an expert, of course.

I do, and it is not irrelevant question. So my answer is correct.