Excluded - final throw of the dice Excluded - final throw of the dice - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Seems a bit too late really but for those in genuine trouble it seems reasonable, whether contractors on 100k a year who are struggling to find a contract would (or should) be eligible is another matter.

    But the company director model goes far beyond 1-man bands. Imagine you run a small shop with a small staff or are a tradesman who employees a couple of guys, etc. Your employees have been fairly well supported via furlough scheme, but there's no help for you. You might have felt compelled to top up their salary beyond the furlough if they're on low wages, and you might offer full sick-pay and have had to pay for self-isolation absence.
    Business owners need income to pay their bills too, and unlike contractors don't tend to have warchests. So these are the type of people I think have been missed out. Those I know are battening down the hatches, and making sacrifices in order to protect their employees out of their own pockets.
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Completely agree, but it would dampen demand substantially
    I don't think it would have dumped demand for support that much, because a lot of people don't have a choice.

    However, it would have dumped demands for massive tax increases that will fall on those who had the least support.

    If those fookers were honest thent they'd say clearly that future taxes will be +5% on income tax across the board and +5% on VAT - increased gently over period of 5 years, now that would raise meaningful amount of money, but they'll never do it preferring to target smaller groups, even though there is no way they'll get anywhere near enough tax compared to "we are all in it together" malarkey.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtW View Post
    I don't think it would have dumped demand for support that much, because a lot of people don't have a choice.

    However, it would have dumped demands for massive tax increases that will fall on those who had the least support.

    If those fookers were honest thent they'd say clearly that future taxes will be +5% on income tax across the board and +5% on VAT - increased gently over period of 5 years, now that would raise meaningful amount of money, but they'll never do it preferring to target smaller groups, even though there is no way they'll get anywhere near enough tax compared to "we are all in it together" malarkey.
    Smaller groups were hammered the moment the Tories pledged to not raise any further tax from the major sources of tax revenue and to not repeat austerity. The pandemic just brought it forward and made it much worse. The only taxes left to raise are the ones that will hammer contractors, one way or another (CGT, dividends, pensions, CT). Agree that the bulk of help should've been loans, tied to individuals, but there's no doubt it would've meant a much shallower recovery with more debt in the private sector, rather than gov't (but less debt overall from less waste).

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    You could at least copy/paste some of it for those of us who aren't subscribers (the google method isn't working, I wonder if they've done something to fix that?)
    Google method still works...

    chancellor urged to help excluded entrepreneurs - Google Search
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

    ― Marcus Aurelius

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtW View Post
    "Under the proposals, directors who are a “person of significant control” would be able to claim 80 per cent of average trading profits before their dividends were taken — figures that can be evidenced via HMRC records, and verified by an accountant. Capped at £2,500 per month, the taxable grants would be paid into the company, not to individuals, which the FSB said would minimise the risk of fraud. Property and investment companies would not be eligible."

    Like that going to happen

    In a fair world Govt support would be provided in form of "student" like debt to be re-paid by the beneficiary, thus dumping down demand for support to those who otherwise might not need it and avoiding having to tax those who not getting support in the first place.

    But this is not a fair world.
    So will there be an excluded from the excluded campaign group next?
    “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Smaller groups were hammered the moment the Tories pledged to not raise any further tax from the major sources of tax revenue and to not repeat austerity.
    Sir Keith will cut the taxes - Labour Landslide when this POS Scumverment collapses well before 2024, and after that Tory Scum will be out of office for hopefully forever.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    it would've meant a much shallower recovery with more debt in the private sector, rather than gov't (but less debt overall from less waste).
    Recovery 95% depends on dealing with the virus

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AtW View Post
    Sir Keith will cut the taxes


    Quote Originally Posted by AtW View Post
    and after that Tory Scum will be out of office for hopefully forever.


    More likely: Labour only gets into power promising an IndyRef (which Keith already promised), wins the election, loses the ref, and then never gets power again in England.

    Or the Tories do the same before 2024 (unlikely).

    Or the boundaries are finally redrawn before 2024.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post






    More likely: Labour only gets into power promising an IndyRef (which Keith already promised), wins the election, loses the ref, and then never gets power again in England.
    If he's canny he will change the union to give the Scottish, Welsh and NI more say. Then the IndyRef will fail.
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    If he's canny he will change the union to give the Scottish, Welsh and NI more say. Then the IndyRef will fail.
    If EU will make exception (due to Brexit) to Scotland and promise to take them as member quickly then IndyRef will get to 60%, plus minus ministrone

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