History of Allergic Reactions -

[DealorNoDeal]

In terms of side-effects, is it a good idea that they're rolling it out to the very old and infirm first?

[vetran]

No. The race course was chosen by a company, a government department and a CCG working together. I did not suggest it to them.


Make up your mind.



I've never said that, sure you're exaggerating for Wail effect. The original comment was that 3 trained people should be required. Not sure how you get from 3 to 20, maybe it was written on the side of a bus?




What planning are you saying they "obviously" didn't do? The people who have had reactions were given the vaccine in a hospital.



Changed your tune there. You want no NHS staff to now wanting NHS staff on backup.



But you just said you want StJA/RC to do it, are you now saying you only want NHS staff to do it? Make up your mind - all this spinning of fact/fake must be making you dizzy.

Oh a bit defensive, twisting words and taking out of context I win again?

1. In your post you suggested that a race course would be used , you also suggested it would be a poor decision because it only had 3 railway stations serving London. Possibly I should have used stated but it seemed from your post it was still out for consideration.

2. Quote out of context nice - Are you out of your mind?

3. 3 trained people? Not what I remembered. As the most sensible way to move a large number of people in a pandemic without cross infection is that you isolate into bubbles, or do the NHS think because we are injecting people Covid would take a day off. one hopes they have planned for this or we might as well get everyone to Wembley to watch the game and inject them on the way out.

If you have multiple bubble observation areas as you would each injector doing ~ one injection per minute and one would expect multiple people doing injections you will have at least 15 people waiting in observation per injection station * number wielding a needle that could easily be a few hundred people in multiple areas.

Is one nurse/paramedic going to run between areas? Or do we seat two - three trained bubbled volunteers in each recovery area covered by cctv and call the Paramedic as soon as symptoms arise, Maybe they can get the person on a gurney and out of the recovery area so the other patients are not exposed to the paramedic and vice versa.

Three medical staff at a racecourse would inject 420 people each but one is mixing, one is injecting and one watching for recovery = 420 injected a day for 3 staff . Epsom has a capacity of 11,000 on race day so that is the sort of numbers we need i.e. 24+ injecting, 24 mixing. so 24 observation bays and 24- 64 extra Nurses / paramedics. It will then be a cast of thousands running that with reception and crowd control. but in hundred days it might vaccinate a million people at that rate. Only 140 more sites of that size needed. Each needing 100 plus NHS staff on each shift we can reduce that to say say 50 by using other people and technology.

4.Well if you are trying to get people to take the vaccine then most people would avoid any horror stories in the first week and delay the ones with allergic reactions and similar for a few days, from the story they seemed surprised it happened and it is suggested allergies were not planned for. By luck it happened in a hospital, seems more accurate.

5. I suggested from the start that we turn crowd control over to the army and similar. We use as few NHS medical staff as sensible so as to not cripple the NHS we already have too many excess deaths. As I suggested in my earlier posts we use trained volunteers as a set of eyes in the observation areas, using medical staff to back them up Paramedics or ER doctors would make the most sense as backup for the hundreds of other staff we need rather than try to find hundreds per site from an under staffed NHS.

Moving 11,00 + people a day will result in some medical and other emergencies, its not just the observation rooms so you probably need a few hundred people per shift managing crowd control should they all be medical professionals.

Some people used to plan this stuff for a living for business and one uses pawns where possible and the specialist pieces then go a bit further, because pawns can be just as or nearly as effective as medical staff in suitably defined roles. The forces and volunteers can supply lots of pawns right now the NHS can't.

[vetran]

The problem is trying to coordinate ANYTHING at a national level within the NHS is like the cliched herding cats. There is no ONE process for anything much - and where there is some form of process these are are interpreted by trusts in different ways.

Precisely and that is why they need to turn the planning over to the experts, the forces rock up in a foreign country with helicopters and organise a forward base with supply lines in days so do people like the red cross for disasters. Turn the organisation over to them and the right bits will turn up at the right time.

The NHS will just try to score points like the teachers.

[WTFH]

In terms of side-effects, is it a good idea that they're rolling it out to the very old and infirm first?

You're asking a specific question, but you're not asking the right question.

[NotAllThere]

How will you know if a pensioner has autism or dementia?

Or indeed was just a moron.

AtW, ignore these reports, they wouldn't say it is safe if it wasn't safe.

Nobody says it's safe. Just safer overall (i.e. fewer serious illnesses and deaths, including those caused by any side-effects or bad reactions) than getting covid-19. The only people who claim anyone said it is safe are morons.

[vetran]

In terms of side-effects, is it a good idea that they're rolling it out to the very old and infirm first?

Very old yes and those unlikely to have an adverse reaction. These are the people that a vaccine that stops them getting sick will help.

[Zigenare]

In terms of side-effects, is it a good idea that they're rolling it out to the very old and infirm first?

Of course it's a good idea, test it on people of least value to society! Have you not read your communist manifesto recently?

[clearedforlanding]

Oh a bit defensive, twisting words and taking out of context I win again?

1. In your post you suggested that a race course would be used , you also suggested it would be a poor decision because it only had 3 railway stations serving London. Possibly I should have used stated but it seemed from your post it was still out for consideration.

2. Quote out of context nice - Are you out of your mind?

3. 3 trained people? Not what I remembered. As the most sensible way to move a large number of people in a pandemic without cross infection is that you isolate into bubbles, or do the NHS think because we are injecting people Covid would take a day off. one hopes they have planned for this or we might as well get everyone to Wembley to watch the game and inject them on the way out.

If you have multiple bubble observation areas as you would each injector doing ~ one injection per minute and one would expect multiple people doing injections you will have at least 15 people waiting in observation per injection station * number wielding a needle that could easily be a few hundred people in multiple areas.

Is one nurse/paramedic going to run between areas? Or do we seat two - three trained bubbled volunteers in each recovery area covered by cctv and call the Paramedic as soon as symptoms arise, Maybe they can get the person on a gurney and out of the recovery area so the other patients are not exposed to the paramedic and vice versa.

Three medical staff at a racecourse would inject 420 people each but one is mixing, one is injecting and one watching for recovery = 420 injected a day for 3 staff . Epsom has a capacity of 11,000 on race day so that is the sort of numbers we need i.e. 24+ injecting, 24 mixing. so 24 observation bays and 24- 64 extra Nurses / paramedics. It will then be a cast of thousands running that with reception and crowd control. but in hundred days it might vaccinate a million people at that rate. Only 140 more sites of that size needed. Each needing 100 plus NHS staff on each shift we can reduce that to say say 50 by using other people and technology.

4.Well if you are trying to get people to take the vaccine then most people would avoid any horror stories in the first week and delay the ones with allergic reactions and similar for a few days, from the story they seemed surprised it happened and it is suggested allergies were not planned for. By luck it happened in a hospital, seems more accurate.

5. I suggested from the start that we turn crowd control over to the army and similar. We use as few NHS medical staff as sensible so as to not cripple the NHS we already have too many excess deaths. As I suggested in my earlier posts we use trained volunteers as a set of eyes in the observation areas, using medical staff to back them up Paramedics or ER doctors would make the most sense as backup for the hundreds of other staff we need rather than try to find hundreds per site from an under staffed NHS.

Moving 11,00 + people a day will result in some medical and other emergencies, its not just the observation rooms so you probably need a few hundred people per shift managing crowd control should they all be medical professionals.

Some people used to plan this stuff for a living for business and one uses pawns where possible and the specialist pieces then go a bit further, because pawns can be just as or nearly as effective as medical staff in suitably defined roles. The forces and volunteers can supply lots of pawns right now the NHS can't.

You are one of those people who read their PowerPoint slides to their audience aren't you?

[shaunbhoy]

Only a matter of time before the paranoid knuckleheads that are up in arms about the "safety" of the vaccine show up quoting the "off-piste" speculations of various discredited medicos.

In many cases these are the same people that will quite happily buy and snort a few grams of "Coke" in the bogs of a nightclub whilst the worse for drink.

You couldn't make it up.

[WTFH]

Only a matter of time before the paranoid knuckleheads ... show up

Right on cue, here you are.

You couldn't make it up.

You frequently do.