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  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
    Secondly, as I understand it, until recently there's been no particular requirement for a passport to positively identify you, rather it offers evidence that you have an entitlement to cross borders, so I do think there's a fundamental difference.
    I've had a passport since I was about 8 (on my mums before that) and it's always required a photo. Don't know how far back you're talking about positively identifying you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
    Thirdly, a passport allows me to trade money and privacy for travel - i.e. there is some benefit to me in having one.
    I would say an ID card allows you to trade money and privacy for security, but there's no point even going down that route, we disagree hugely on that issue.

    I disagree with your dissection of the money laundering regulations. Anything that places an obstacle in the path of terrorism and crime has to be seen as a benefit, no matter how small. Is it that much of an inconvenience to produce a passport and two utility bills?

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    I think everybody should have ID cards and be implanted with ID chips.

    Nuff said.

    Have you ever watched demolition man (Wesley Snipes + Sly Stallone)? I actually think that technology is a great idea.

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    I've had a passport since I was about 8 (on my mums before that) and it's always required a photo. Don't know how far back you're talking about positively identifying you.
    And my first passport was a visitor's one from the post office - interestingly, defunct since 1995 because to quote the Home Office "BVPs were stopped in 1995 because they did not meet modern security standards and did not confirm the holder’s national identity."
    So the answer is I'm talking about as far back as 1995.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    I would say an ID card allows you to trade money and privacy for security, but there's no point even going down that route, we disagree hugely on that issue.
    Well, I don't know, other than some vague assertions, no-one's been able to confirm what this security I'm supposed to be getting is, why I should be compelled to have (and pay for) it, and what it offers that I'm not getting now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    I disagree with your dissection of the money laundering regulations. Anything that places an obstacle in the path of terrorism and crime has to be seen as a benefit, no matter how small.
    That's plainly not viable in a free society - for example, a "small" obstacle to crime would be for everyone to be searched every time they left a shop, but I think most people would regard that as too much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    Is it that much of an inconvenience to produce a passport and two utility bills?
    Yes, because it's totally pointless, and it leads to an acceptance of the pointless and the riduculous, instead of any attempt to address the real criminals.

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    Have you ever watched demolition man (Wesley Snipes + Sly Stallone)? I actually think that technology is a great idea.
    Mmmmm with fiery Denis Leary as the underground cult leader


    How is this thread STILL alive?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The pope is a tard.

  5. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by SallyAnne View Post
    How is this thread STILL alive?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Well, you've just posted on it......

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peoplesoft bloke View Post
    Well, you've just posted on it......

    Oh no - am I part of the problem?!!!!

    myself!
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  7. #167

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    Roll on the Summer Holiday thread
    Confusion is a natural state of being

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Incognito View Post
    Anything that places an obstacle in the path of terrorism has to be seen as a benefit, no matter how small.[edit]
    ID cards will not help this. Each of the terrorists who are known to have taken part in 9/11, London and Madrid? would all have had legal ID cards. They were not pretending to be anyone else.

    PB:
    ID cards would help the police in their day to day job of identifying criminals. Just about everyone they stop who is a crim gives a false name and address. Just watch the reality progs for evidence.

    ID cards would allow pubs and off licences to easily prove that people purchasing alcohol are of legal age to do so. This would remove the issue which must be very annoying for young looking people who are actually old enough of carrying ID just to get a drink.

    ID cards SHOULD remove all the different requirements by different authorities for what constitutes proof of ID though I expect it will just be another to add to the list.

    There are a number of good reasons to have them and they do work in other countries, but I just know our Government will cock it up.
    I am not qualified to give the above advice!

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  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    ID cards will not help this. Each of the terrorists who are known to have taken part in 9/11, London and Madrid? would all have had legal ID cards. They were not pretending to be anyone else.

    PB:
    ID cards would help the police in their day to day job of identifying criminals. Just about everyone they stop who is a crim gives a false name and address. Just watch the reality progs for evidence.
    Only if it becomes mandatory to carry them at all times. Otherwise the line "I've left it at home" would be all that's needed. Obviously this doesn't matter to some people, but I don't want to live in a country where carrying government papers at all times is compulsory. Plenty of the Police are opposed to this too. I've seen Police interviewed about this and although many crims do this, it's mostly not hard for them to find out the truth - as you may also observe from reality telly.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    ID cards would allow pubs and off licences to easily prove that people purchasing alcohol are of legal age to do so. This would remove the issue which must be very annoying for young looking people who are actually old enough of carrying ID just to get a drink.
    Fine - but leave them voluntary and leave me the flip out of it - and there's no need for a massive database and fingerprints for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    ID cards SHOULD remove all the different requirements by different authorities for what constitutes proof of ID though I expect it will just be another to add to the list.
    Exactly - should but we all know they won't.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    There are a number of good reasons to have them
    Which are?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    and they do work in other countries,
    No they don't "work" in other counties - just because they exist doesn't mean they do any good. If you actually spend time on this you will find that countries that have ID cards don't have significantly less crime, terrorism, illegal immigration, under age drinking (insert this week's spurious justification) than those that do. The "other Countries have them" line is just about the weakest argument I've heard - other countries have bullfighting and child prostitution - that doesn't mean we want them too.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
    but I just know our Government will cock it up.
    Not least because the planned scheme is more ambitious and intrusive than almost any other country's (except maybe China)
    Last edited by Peoplesoft bloke; 19th September 2008 at 11:02.

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