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The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill

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    #21
    Originally posted by The Lone Gunman
    I dont actualy see NL as a Nazi party, I do think they have the best intentions as they see them.

    Their problem is the unintended consequences game. All the people mentioned above who introduced these kinds of laws did it to further their own drive for total power. I dont think NL are like that.
    They dont seem to realise that somewhere in the future they are not going to be in power and this kind of legislation leaves a wide open door for a less democratic party (or individual) to ride rough shod over the opposition.

    They are creating a stage which the likes of Hitler had to manufacture for themselves.
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Intentions are irrelevant if you are banged up for weeks without knowing why.

    We know we have a government who cannot think through their legislation, and this is one more example of it. They are dangerous because they are incompetent.

    Comment


      #22
      Nothing to Worry About

      Are 649 pimples on humanity's @rse (MPs) really going to vote through legislation which neuters them and makes them redundant?

      We can, for once, rest assured and rely on the naked-self interest and boundless greed of our MPs to ensure this bill never sees the light of day.

      Comment


        #23
        Agree Wendigo. Intentions count for nothing. I daresay many Nazis had the best of intentions too in their own view, the fate of a few subhumans was a small price to pay for the future of the Arian race.

        I don't think anyone actually sets out to do something they believe themselves is wrong, or if they do, they soon justify it in their own minds.

        Unfortunately, it is also human nature for anyone who reaches the top to keep the power for themselves, to believe that they have all the answers and that those they rule have none. The only solution is to have the rules that prevent it. Unfortunately none of them are prepared for the loss of power that a more democratic system would involve.
        bloggoth

        If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'
        John Wayne (My guru, not to be confused with my beloved prophet Jeremy Clarkson)

        Comment


          #24
          It rather depends on how pessimistic your outlook is. i.e.

          Is the government incompetent or bad?

          The truth is probably a mixture of the two. Most PMs, especially the Blair's Babes generation have little knowledge of law or probably even constitutional history so they will just about do what the PM/whips tell them. Another group are just looking out for their careers and will again vote according to what they are told.

          That leaves a small proportion that are opposed and the small core that are driving this sort of legislation.

          On its own I'd say that this appears to be just bad law but when you consider the massive re-wiring of British law that has been going on lately it all seems to add up to something odd because they are all pointing in one direction and that is excessive control over our lives being levied by big, powerful government. These are not the conditions which a democracy flower in.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by vista
            Are 649 pimples on humanity's @rse (MPs) really going to vote through legislation which neuters them and makes them redundant?

            We can, for once, rest assured and rely on the naked-self interest and boundless greed of our MPs to ensure this bill never sees the light of day.
            I wish. However, under New Labour MP's seem don't seem to like attending debates. They arrive just in time for the division to the lobbies and vote whichever way the whips told them. New Labour does not seem to have any underlying philosphy (other than keeping it's architects in power). What this means is that the MP's will vote for this abhorrent legislation because they have not thought through the consequences.

            If you want proof consider the following. The legislation is to get rid of regulation. However, it has not occured to New Labour not to create the legislation in the first place.

            It may be counter-intutive but this lack of proper parliamentary scrutiny alongside this bill will actually create more poor regulations, not less. That is because poorly considered legislation will be nodded through, safe in the knowledge that it can be tweeked as and when required.

            Comment


              #26
              If this legislation is to cut red tape, then why does it not have in it that it is only to be used to cut red tape.

              i.e. Why does it need to enable the ability to create new prison sentences at a ministers whim?
              Insanity: repeating the same actions, but expecting different results.
              threadeds website, and here's my blog.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by threaded
                If this legislation is to cut red tape, then why does it not have in it that it is only to be used to cut red tape.

                i.e. Why does it need to enable the ability to create new prison sentences at a ministers whim?
                A point which has not passed the Guardian by. Which said

                Originally posted by Guardian
                This is to say little about common law, the centuries of precedents and rulings which contain so many of the historic rights of British culture. 'Oh no,' said the minister, as if talking to a child, 'ministers will give assurances; they will confine themselves to the regulations that concern business.'

                If that is the case, why does the bill not say so? Why is it drafted so loosely? Why is Jim Murphy doing so much to protect its versatility? Why won't he put the safeguards in the bill from the start? There can be only one answer: ministers want to bypass parliament and transfer authority to themselves and their officials under the cover of helping business.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by threaded
                  If this legislation is to cut red tape, then why does it not have in it that it is only to be used to cut red tape.

                  i.e. Why does it need to enable the ability to create new prison sentences at a ministers whim?
                  Doublethink


                  The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. ...

                  To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary.

                  Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth. (pages 35, 176-177)

                  Hope that helps !!!

                  Comment


                    #29
                    There can be only one answer: ministers want to bypass parliament and transfer authority to themselves and their officials under the cover of helping business.

                    Right Right you Bloody Well Right !!!

                    When have NL ever had any intention of helping business, they have spent years taxing them out of existence.

                    What a bunch of dangerous shady liars this lot are ...


                    Wake up Britain you are sleepwalking into Totalitarianism ...
                    Last edited by AlfredJPruffock; 20 March 2006, 14:39.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Here are some good quotes that I'm sure are being paraphrased and repeated at Labour Party Headquarters behind closed doors. For some minor amusement, see if you can guess who said what (some of them could have been said at the last cabinet meeting, they seem so prescient).

                      Answers at the bottom.

                      a) What good fortune for those in power that the people do not think.

                      b) If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

                      c) Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.

                      d) Fascism should rightly be called corporatism as it is a merger of state and corporate power

                      e) Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.

                      f) One of the penalities for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.


                      Answers:
                      a) Hitler
                      b) Goebbels
                      c) Stalin
                      d) Mussolini
                      e) Theodore Roosevelt
                      f) Plato

                      How sad we appear to have changed so little.

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