Public sector strikes

[expat]

Or go be a permie for local govt on crap pay for the next 25 years.....

Jam Today / Jam Tommorow. Your choice.

You beat me to it, DaveB. Spoilt kids here: I'll have my jam today, and I don't want you having your jam tomorrow.

[privateeye]

The "85 Rule" says you can retire if service + age => 85. What these clowns are striking for is actually the right to preferential treatment. Very socialist...

It was that type of behaviour that brought the last Labour Govt down, first the council workers went on strike because they thought they should be treated better than the other Civil Servants. Then when the council workers got what they wanted the Civil Servants went on strike to get what the council workers got + 10% to make them better off. Next the miners went on strike to get what the Civil Servants got + 10% etc etc and then it all started again with the council workers.

[Dundeegeorge]

Tricky one

What these "clowns" are striking for is to have their agreements honoured. They make the quite reasonable point that, when you join local government, the retirement benefits are an essential part of the package: part of the reason why you accept lower rates of pay than the private sector.

Whether or not the package is overly generous, is not the point: a deal was made, and the unions want it to be kept for existing workers, who made that deal.

Wish I could say I'm stunned that a load of people on this board would prefer to renege on the deal if there was a few quid in it for them.

Is it only written contracts that matter?
If other contracts are important (like the implied contract between yourself and the government when you pay your tax/ni and expect to get a government pension/a health service/ a decent education system) then in what way is the public sector employees' contract more important than that?
Or indeed the contract between yourself and your council when you pay council tax. Is that not important because it's not written down?
Hey, let's go on strike because our bins aren't being collected today because there's a strike by public-sector workers.
Hmnn, I really hate this black-and-white stuff, don't you?

The really annoying aspect of this furore is that it's not the fat cats on massive salaries who wil be affected, it's (in general) the lower-paid workers who will suffer (as always happens under governments of whatever stripe).

[The Lone Gunman]

What these "clowns" are striking for is to have their agreements honoured. They make the quite reasonable point that, when you join local government, the retirement benefits are an essential part of the package: part of the reason why you accept lower rates of pay than the private sector.

Whether or not the package is overly generous, is not the point: a deal was made, and the unions want it to be kept for existing workers, who made that deal.

Wish I could say I'm stunned that a load of people on this board would prefer to renege on the deal if there was a few quid in it for them.

I agree with this, however on emust note that the unions are conveniently forgetting that they have campaigned for years to bring wages into line with the private sector.
As they have managed those rates and more then surely the pension rights should also be up for negotiation.

[malvolio]

Malvolio,

I've chased you about 50 times trying to get answer to this,

how is your Volvo (xc90) ?

is it the diesel auto and what is the reliability like of those cars ?

Are they as reliable as a Volkswagen Toureg ?

Thanks,

Milan.

OK, but it's not mine, I drive a Scooby. Mate has an early one and the diesel has major arguments with the autobox, but since it's a company car he's stuck with it (tee hee, told him thee was a problem, but would he listen?). The manual would have been OK, but the latest flavour (revised engine and new gearbox) is apparently a lot better. No idea on realibliity, but Volvos are pretty good - my T5R did 120k fairly hard miles and all that needed replacing were the front brakes (surprise!) and the chip that drives the fault diagostics (don't ask - £3 component, £120 fitting charge: it's behind the dashboard...).

[DaveB]

I agree with this, however on emust note that the unions are conveniently forgetting that they have campaigned for years to bring wages into line with the private sector.
As they have managed those rates and more then surely the pension rights should also be up for negotiation.

Three quarters of those affected are classed as low paid workers , the average pension for a local authority worker is £4000 a year. £31 a week. Still think thats overly generous?

[The Lone Gunman]

Three quarters of those affected are classed as low paid workers , the average pension for a local authority worker is £4000 a year. £31 a week. Still think thats overly generous?

As an equivelant to similar workers in the private sector they are.

[ASB]

At the risk of getting my head bitten off.....

I have a lot of sympathy for some of these people. Specifically those who are in the pension scheme where the rule of 85 applies.

Traditionally public service paid less and gave better pension benefits. People valued those so took lower paid jobs in exchange for better benefits. Typically the overall lifetime employment cost of lower paid civil servants verses better paid private sector was broadly equivalent after the actuary had calculated the benefit costs.

All the strikers are asking for is that the government keep their side of the bargain.

The problem is that people are no longer prepared to value those benefits so highly. As a result of this public sector pay has increased to levels equivalent to the private sector. However the government has not been prepared to modify pension terms for new joiners

[milanbenes]

Malvolio,

ta,

Milan.

[expat]

Is it only written contracts that matter?
If other contracts are important (like the implied contract between yourself and the government when you pay your tax/ni and expect to get a government pension/a health service/ a decent education system) then in what way is the public sector employees' contract more important than that?

What is at issue is the contract of employment. It is a contract, with specific terms.

There is no "contract between yourself and the government" for the return on paying taxes.

Quite simple really.