Working hours

[somewebguy]

What do you REALLY understand about IR35?

I have read a lot about it and talked to Bauer & Cottrell etc etc, so understand it pretty well. But obviously not everything, hence why I asked the question in the first place.

Most seem to use it to hide behind as a way for working whatever hours they like.

A professional working day is usually a lot more than finishing like a 9-5 permie at 5pm.

If you are a true contractor, you cannot wish for fluffy permie family friendly hours, and need to make arrangements and manage this accordingly.

If work life balance with hours you like are important, get a permie job with flex time and stop whinging.

I don't know any contractors in my industry, or my wifes (which is totally different) who work longer hours than the permies. Most are out the door on time. There is no reason why someone can't be a contractor and be there for their kids.

And I am not whinging. I am actually trying to come up with a constructive solution and am merely asking for some advice on the best way to do it. There is no need to be rude about it.

[somewebguy]

That sounds far worse than "professional working day". It implies that you will work the normal working hours the permies do and doesn't give you the leeway of being different. I wouldn't be very happy to see that in a contract and would have changed it to read professional working day for my own peace of mind.

It is defined as: "number of hours required for the Contractor to perform the Services"

But that could mean anything. If I deliver my tasks ahead of time, I could go home when I want, surely? At the same time, if I don't and it is taking me longer, I would have to work later. I am quite happy with that. But as most clients can't handle that, we all end up doing more or less set hours.

[somewebguy]

Do bear in mind that Wilmslow is a permie.

Ah, that explains it!

[MikeToml]

Excuse this thread necromancy

But this thread highlights something for me re IR35

As an independent business with a single client, I want to do everything reasonable to comply with their wishes because if I p*ss them off, bye bye contract. And they're paying me a lot of money so I want to keep them happy. If I were an employee I could be a bit stroppier.

On the other hand, if I do whatever they tell me I'm being controlled and deemed an employee.

It feels like you can't win.

[MarillionFan]

I'm a great believer in getting the job done.

I do tend to work a PWD but have the number of hours put in the contract and also have any start times/finish times removed. That way its flexible.

Saying that though, if I need to be in early or stay late i will arrange childcare accordingly unless a last minute request where the answer is no and if a job needs finishing because of deadlines I will work extra hours & take the time back accordingly or invoice for extra part days if previously agreed.

[northernladuk]

Sounds like you are on your way out.

A professional working day in my book is what the clients wants.

If the company has certain core hours, it is reasonable to work accordingly.

If you negotiate different to company core hours this will need to be done BEFORE you accept.

I do very different hours to company core hours as a permie, but could not as a contractor. I negotiated my different hours before accepting.

What would it be like for you if the company teminated you? Would you rather accept a poxy hours difference to keep the contract?

You have some serious thinking to do.

ADMIN ADMIN!!! Wilmslow has been hacked!! This makes sense to me!!! Heyalp!!!

[bobspud]

As an aside, an 8 hour day is not a Professsional Working Day, it's an hourly contract giving the client free hours for working overtime. A PWD means you charge a set amount for working during any 24 hour period, regardless of how long for.

It does not give anyone anything for free... It provides the client with a minimum set of hours you will be expected to work for a day rate. Once you go over the 8 hours in your day it's down to you to make it clear that the customer will be charged accordingly. I suggest you have a chat with a solicitor and see if he will give you three free hours of work when you pay for 8. It's time the industry got united on this and stopp being a bunch of weak spined pussies... I have actually worked on sites along side people charging 8 hours for 14 while I charged 2 days on the exactly the same contract terms....

By all means give free time away if you wish. But I am an IT whore and I charge my time accordingly PWD or hourly rate.