Panorama Mission Accomplished? Secrets of Helmand

[SupremeSpod]

You forgot Tunisia.

For a reason. I don't believe the situation in Tunisia is derived from 2 opposed factions that have been kept in line by an iron hand in a velvet glove.

[sasguru]

Er, you're the only one mentioning them as "war criminals".

.

That's the Dodgy way. Build up some huge straw men and tilt at them like Don Quixote.

PS. FWIT I don't think Tone was a war criminal, I think he is very bright but mad as a coot, someone who acts on the voices in his head which is even worse.

[minestrone]

Anyway, I am not surprised bombs are their favoured method of warfare, they look feckin' useless with guns.

[SupremeSpod]

There is a school of thought that by taking the battle to them on their streets we're helping to keep the unpleasantness from our streets.

However, personally I think we're only delaying the inevitable.

[MyUserName]

Well I would guess (and I know little about this) that the Iraq issue has nothing really to do with Saddam. It is to do with the combination of the environmental, economic, religious and social sitation of the local area. It is a combination where brutal dictators can florish. If you topple Saddam there will be a long period of infighting before another brutal tyrant emerges and the situation is the same as previously.

If you want to change that then you need to change the causes - however, this is so hard it is almost impossible as local wannabe tyrants do not want you to, they want you to topple the big dog and the leave so they can take over. Even if you had all of them co-operating then it would be expensive and time consuming to bring, say, Iraq to a social and economic where a stable (ie Western European model) democracy can keep hold.

So far we have taken away the big dog who was running the place and simply set the scene for his successor to rise?

[DodgyAgent]

That's the Dodgy way. Build up some huge straw men and tilt at them like Don Quixote.

PS. FWIT I don't think Tone was a war criminal, I think he is very bright but mad as a coot, someone who acts on the voices in his head which is even worse.

It was our democratic system that voted him in so we are all responsible especially all the leftie tw*ts that voted labour

[original PM]

having not seen the documentary it is difficult to comment

however one simple thing seems to be coming through - the fact that regardless of who is doing what the rise to power of petty dictators using terror and warfare will continue until humanity evolves beyond the pointless pursuit of power for the sake of having power rather than for the good that can come from it.

Do not blame Blair, Bush or anyone else - they are not forcing these people to act like animals.

[darmstadt]

It was our democratic system that voted him in so we are all responsible especially all the leftie tw*ts that voted labour

You mean those Conservatives who were dissatisified with the ruling majority at the time. In the 1997 general election there was a massive swing to Labour and a massive loss for the Tories. Things went a bit down in 2001 and even worse in 2005 as the Tories who had voted him realised that he was in fact a Tory, albeit under a different name, so switched their allegiance back to the Conservative Party as there was really very little difference between the two.

[d000hg]

It was our democratic system that voted him in so we are all responsible especially all the leftie tw*ts that voted labour

Sure, of course.

[sasguru]

It was our democratic system that voted him in so we are all responsible especially all the leftie tw*ts that voted labour

Wasn't there a cross-party consensus in favour of the war(s)?