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  1. #1

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    Default Johnny Wilkinson

    Is Johnny the greatest English Rugby player of all time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgyAgent View Post
    Is Johnny the greatest English Rugby player of all time?
    He's good, but he's a back.

    Jason Leonard or Martin Johnson. Mind you, Wilkinson often defended like a forward and he might have done even better for England if he'd just left a bit more of the heavy work to the heavy boys.

    But on balance, yes. <hoping no other forwards see me saying that; I didn't say it out loud though boys>
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    Decent kicker but never as good as Neil Jenkins was (yes I know hes Welsh). Johnny played for a dominant English side but Jenks played for a crap wales team and still managed to break records.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mich the Tester View Post
    He's good, but he's a back.

    Jason Leonard or Martin Johnson. Mind you, Wilkinson often defended like a forward and he might have done even better for England if he'd just left a bit more of the heavy work to the heavy boys.

    But on balance, yes. <hoping no other forwards see me saying that; I didn't say it out loud though boys>
    Remember the sa fly half years ago? Naas botha? Never any chance of him getting injured tackling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychocandy View Post
    Decent kicker but never as good as Neil Jenkins was (yes I know hes Welsh). Johnny played for a dominant English side but Jenks played for a crap wales team and still managed to break records.
    How many world cups/heineken cups did Jenkins win?

    To be fair he won a Lions victory and Wilkinson did not but in terms of achievement he was not in Wilkinsons league
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgyAgent View Post
    How many world cups/heineken cups did Jenkins win?

    To be fair he won a Lions victory and Wilkinson did not but in terms of achievement he was not in Wilkinsons league
    That's not a wholly valid point. Jenkins played in a relatively weak Welsh team, whereas Wilkinson played in a very strong England team.

    He had Dawson and Greenwood either side of him telling him what to do, and Neil Back in front. Without players of that calibre around him he was ordinary, just look back to 2011.

    I thought he was England's best-ever kicker judging on his peak years and a decent tackler, but never their greatest player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggy Styles View Post
    That's not a wholly valid point. Jenkins played in a relatively weak Welsh team, whereas Wilkinson played in a very strong England team.

    He had Dawson and Greenwood either side of him telling him what to do, and Neil Back in front. Without players of that calibre around him he was ordinary, just look back to 2011.

    I thought he was England's best-ever kicker from his peak years and a decent tackler, but never their greatest player.
    England were strong because of Wilkinson, because of his leadership which in recent years has brought the Toulon team together to form a very effective team. You could apply your Jenkins logic to any player but I am afraid that his great strength was to get the best our of the players around him just as much as how he played. There is also the matter of pressure and wilkinson showed that he could play under the most intense of pressure - something jenkins never got the opportunity to do.

    Anyway I was not proposing Wilkinson as Englands greatest player so your points about Jenkins are irrelevant (or has he become an Englishman?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgyAgent View Post
    England were strong because of Wilkinson, because of his leadership which in recent years has brought the Toulon team together to form a very effective team. You could apply your Jenkins logic to any player but I am afraid that his great strength was to get the best our of the players around him just as much as how he played. There is also the matter of pressure and wilkinson showed that he could play under the most intense of pressure - something jenkins never got the opportunity to do.

    Anyway I was not proposing Wilkinson as Englands greatest player so your points about Jenkins are irrelevant (or has he become an Englishman?)
    You were asking whether Wilkinson was Englands greatest player hence my reply.

    As for Jenkins, I was just replying to your point about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgyAgent View Post
    Is Johnny the greatest English Rugby player of all time?
    No
    HTH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggy Styles View Post
    You were asking whether Wilkinson was Englands greatest player hence my reply.

    As for Jenkins, I was just replying to your point about him.
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