More proof for Spontaneous Generation

[hattra]

Some good Christians, and true believers in the Creation

Thomas de Torquemada
Adolf Hitler
James I & VI
Matthew Hopkins
Hernando Cortes

The perpetrators of the:
Crusades
Inquisition
Reconquista
Holocaust

and , of course, nobody knows the full extent of what Spain and Portugal did in South America & the Caribbean, because there are so few survivors among the native people (the Caribs no longer exist)

[ChicoLondon]

Oh dear

Surely you are not suggesting anyone who claims to be Christian or was brought up as one is a true Christian. I would rather evaluate them on their actions as well. Ultimately God will decide if the motley crew you suggested are Christians - The Bible defines Christians as those who not only confess that Jesus Christ is Lord but also behave as Christ would have them to.

Secular humanists do not go around proclaiming that they are secular humanists and it seems you are getting hung up on the definition of a humanist. As such clarification is required.

Secular humanism or in defined contexts secularism is a philosophy of ethics that emphasizes a humanist world view based upon naturalism —a belief that the physical world is all that truly exists, and therefore is the arbiter of ethical issues. The term "secular" refers to secularity, or the separation of one element from another.

The term "secular" commonly refers to a political separation of church and state, and unlike the above definition of secular humanism, "secularism" does not imply any rejection of religion or religious-based history and values, rather it simply asserts a distiction in the application of religious values, lest they impose upon the religious freedom of others. Secularity in humanism refers to the application of a similar distinction within the context of humanist moral values —which claims to better satisfy the common humanist goals, by means of excluding religion from matters of ethics and morality.

"Secular humanism" is distinguished from the broader "humanism" in that the secular humanist prefers free inquiry over received wisdom—upholding the scientific method for inquiry, while rejecting "revealed knowledge" and theism-based morality. Secular humanism has appeal to atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, rationalists, skeptics, and materialists. Its basic tenets may be simplified as:

Humans have value and can solve human problems
Science, free speech, rational thought, democracy, and freedom in the arts go together
There is nothing supernatural . - wikipedia

As such back to my point about the origination of morality of secular humanists. It emanates from within themselves or people like them and if you do not fit into the circle woe betide you. History is very clear about what happens when theistic morality is rejected. We see it all around us, in schools, society at large. No respect for others because the individual determines their own morality - the selfishness of atheism is clear.

[Lucifer Box]

Re: Oh dear

Okay, we'll use the definition of a humanist you've cut 'n' pasted.

Humans have value and can solve human problems.
Science, free speech, rational thought, democracy, and freedom in the arts go together. There is nothing supernatural

Doesn't sound much like a character protrait of Hitler to me.

[dundeegeorge]

Dundee you are a Roman soldier circa 40 AD

What? What? What kind of idiot are you ?
I'm Scottish, an IT Contractor, and the last time I looked, it was about 2005.
So what do you think you are?
Are you perhaps Peter (the Rock on whom the church of Rome is built, even though he lied and denied Jesus three times before the @#%$ crew ?) (No that's not some kind of gay rap band or chippendales)
Are you a small limpet-like creature hanging on to a rock?
Are you a hugely talented and misunderstood individual who is unappreciated by the common herd around (quite a typical psychotic's self-view, I am given to understand).
Or are you perhaps some sad dull person who will believe anything that's beaten in to them hard enough, or are you so sad you were convinced by the lies of others?
Are you perhaps the tooth fairy, the easter-bunny, santa claus?

So, no physical evidence at all then. So your whole belief system is based on unsubstantiated rumour and medieval superstition.

Or perhaps when you were younger you experimented with drugs, is that it? Have you been driven to your evangelical state of lunacy by some dodgy LSD, too much skunk or impure cocaine?

No? So you're just stupid then, fair enough.

[hattra]

Re: Dundee you are a Roman soldier circa 40 AD

Surely you are not suggesting anyone who claims to be Christian or was brought up as one is a true Christian. I would rather evaluate them on their actions as well

Well, well, might I refer you to: this:

Now you can make the case that Hitler was not actually a Christian, despite professing himself to be one for most of his life, on the basis that his actions were not those of a Christian - few people would disagree with you.

However, having used the argument that "his actions were not those of a Christian", others are entitled to use the same logic and make the case that he was not a humanist, on the basis that his actions were not those of a humanist.

(hattra )

So having used the argument that they were not “true” Christians, because their actions were not Christian, I’m afraid that you now have to accept that someone who did not follow humanist principles, cannot have been a Humanist (or a “true” Humanist, to use your phrase)

my point about the origination of morality of secular humanists. It emanates from within themselves or people like them

Most of the people that I know, who describe themselves as humanists (and yes, people do “declare” themselves to be humanists – secular or otherwise) use the teachings of Christ as their starting point, others base their philosophy on the teachings of Buddha. Their ideas of morality are definitely externally derived.

You appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that, if somebody is not a Creationist Christian, then they are a secular humanist - the world is infinitely more complex than that! You gave Pol Pot as an example of a "Secular Humanist" - his background was Buddhism, followed by a Catholic College, followed by many years studying various left-wing teachings, before he settled on Maoism and the "received wisdom" that Mao and his Little Red Book provided.

The only group I can think of that may have subscribed (approximately) to what you claim ALL humanists subscribe to, was the Ranters, a small, short-lived, mid-17th Century group of free-thinkers. They are usually linked (wrongly, as they had little in common) to the Levellers, a proto-Communist group of the same period.

[ChicoLondon]

Hitler

LB

Once again you miss the point - what drove Hitler was that the Aryan race was the perfect human example. Morality stemmed from them and salvation for all the world's ills would be brought about by them. Anyone who continues to suggest Hitler was a Christian or even a theist demonstrates their lack of history and I suspect have not done any reading on the rise of fascism.

Oi dundee once again the metaphor goes way over your head

[hattra]

Re: Hitler

Anyone who continues to suggest Hitler was a Christian or even a theist demonstrates their lack of history

To misquote Shakespear
"stiffen up the sinews, imitate the action of an ostrich"

Head still firmly in the sand, eh, CL

All we've had to do to comprehensively destroy your argument about Hitler, is to quote your own cut 'n pastes of his own words back at you.

I learned my knowledge of the Nazi era from a Durham University history graduate, who not only lived through the Nazi era, but also served in the British army of Occupation in Berlin immediately after the war. Where did you cut'n paste your "knowledge" from?

[Lucifer Box]

Here we go again

Once again, Chico, you try and shimmy around the issue by just making up what others say.

Anyone who continues to suggest Hitler was a Christian or even a theist

Saying that Hitler was not a humanist is not the same as saying that he was a Christian.

[dundeegeorge]

Oi dundee once again the metaphor goes way over yo

You didn't use a metaphor, tosser. (For the grammatically challenged , the use of the word tosser was purely an insult and included no attempt at metaphor, hyperbole, irony, or sarcasm.)
Or perhaps that was a biblical metaphor (i.e. it means whatever you want it to mean at any given time) .

I see you still have no proof for your fairy stories then.
But still you persist. Well, one has to acknowledge your amazing devotion to your delusion.
Now pi55 off and go bother some other retards.

[jabberjobber]

Re: Oi dundee once again the metaphor goes way over yo

Now pi55 off and go bother some other retards.

Rather than the retards on here, I suppose. Chico is entitled to his view - he cannot offer proof - but then neither can you - which makes you look rather like a schoolboy. Oh me sir, me sir ...