APN representation grounds

[lastManStanding]

I Called the settlement line about 2 months ago and asked for my calculations. Nothing has come through. I'll fill in the form they have and try it that way.

I sent the d03 form to hmrc in December 2014 and still have not had my calculations. I have chased them twice in the intervening period and each time I am told that they are being handled by a case officer who would contact me shortly.

So far, nothing......

[slatt]

I Called the settlement line about 2 months ago and asked for my calculations. Nothing has come through. I'll fill in the form they have and try it that way.

I would just keep waiting if I were you, two months is nothing to HMRC!

I asked for a calculation back in Oct 2014 and only got a reply about two weeks ago

Yes that's right, 6 months to give me two numbers!

And I bet they'll still be complaining about how we've been dragging our feet....

[neil99]

I would just keep waiting if I were you, two months is nothing to HMRC!

I asked for a calculation back in Oct 2014 and only got a reply about two weeks ago

Yes that's right, 6 months to give me two numbers!

And I bet they'll still be complaining about how we've been dragging our feet....

Did you get a copy of the 9A TMA 1970 notices - enquiry notices ?

[webberg]

What about, if I have seen two APN's that have the incorrect Penalty schedule (eg not the one in the legislation?) Surely this is a procedure problem and therefore can be represented against? At least forcing them to reissue?

I think the answer is "yes" but I'm not clear what you mean by "penalty schedule".

[webberg]

So still waiting! Would 9A TMA 1970 notices go to my accountant as well as me ?

Do you see any advantage in asking HMRC for settlement calculations yet ?

BTW there are a few of us in this confusing situation where we need some hand holding and are not getting specific help from scheme providers on chasing up these matters.

I've exhanged a few messages with folks here and they've been saying 'find a tax advisor'. I've called the IPSE tax people and they suggested following up the settlement route. But I've been advised that the settlement office won't have specific proof of the 9A TMA 1970 notices being actually sent! So stuck in limbo until and if APNs land.

1. Only if your accountant was your authorised adviser at the time of issue. Failure to copy to an adviser is not failure to deliver.

2. Asking for a calculation ties up resources, so do it. The APN teams and the settlement teams are separate so getting a calculation and spending time discussing it with possible APN repercussions ties up two teams

3. Most scheme providers are probably not obliged to help and are certainly not retained as your advisers. Take what you can but don't expect them to remain there.

4. IPSE are not tax advisers and you should treat their thoughts as opinion. Get an adviser. Google is your friend. If in doubt go to the CIOT website and find an adviser.

5. The HMRC teams on settlement should be able to check whether you have an open year or not. If they say they can't (or won't) you politely request an extension of time until your case officer confirms or denies the notices.

[webberg]

Which firms are offering this ? A list would be really useful.

These firms are competitors of mine and one of the reasons for publishing the first post here was to show that you don't really need them and their fees.

I will therefore decline to name names.

[Underbase]

I think the answer is "yes" but I'm not clear what you mean by "penalty schedule".

I know I am now arguing with them that they didn't include enough penalties however I am in the situation where I can actually pay, but would like to make sure they get thier own procedures correct and are somewhat held to account.

They have only outlined 2 sets of penalties, (also calling them surcharges) one for 28 days after the due date and one for 6 months. If I am correct and I am no expert this is from an old internal procedure for some other surcharges, but not the correct ones for an APN. Is this enough to make a representation to that effect?

[webberg]

I know I am now arguing with them that they didn't include enough penalties however I am in the situation where I can actually pay, but would like to make sure they get thier own procedures correct and are somewhat held to account.

They have only outlined 2 sets of penalties, (also calling them surcharges) one for 28 days after the due date and one for 6 months. If I am correct and I am no expert this is from an old internal procedure for some other surcharges, but not the correct ones for an APN. Is this enough to make a representation to that effect?

Unfortunately "no".

It seems that because the regime for penalties changed in April 2009, liabilities arising (via an APN) for periods prior to then carry a "surcharge". These are payable 28 days post non payment, 6 months and 12 months, each at 5%.

Periods after that carry a non payment penalty starting on the due date and then at 5 and 11 months, again at 5% each.

I confess that it's not clear to me at the moment if the above is correct and in particular I don't know why a liability falling after April 2009 should attract this treatment when the regime is based on assessment years. When I have a chance I will investigate further.

[Underbase]

Unfortunately "no".

It seems that because the regime for penalties changed in April 2009, liabilities arising (via an APN) for periods prior to then carry a "surcharge". These are payable 28 days post non payment, 6 months and 12 months, each at 5%.

Periods after that carry a non payment penalty starting on the due date and then at 5 and 11 months, again at 5% each.

I confess that it's not clear to me at the moment if the above is correct and in particular I don't know why a liability falling after April 2009 should attract this treatment when the regime is based on assessment years. When I have a chance I will investigate further.

Ahh, but what I am saying is they have left out the final 12 month 5% so there is only 2 "surcharges" not three mentioned.

[webberg]

Ahh, but what I am saying is they have left out the final 12 month 5% so there is only 2 "surcharges" not three mentioned.

I'll do some checking elsewhere.