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Thread: Death of Grass

  1. #1

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    Default Death of Grass

    is the name of a science fiction novel dating from 1956 and written by Samuel Youd using a pen name.

    It's worth a read.

    Basically describes how in a world of diminishing resources, people will turn to increasingly brutal tactics to survive.

    For many current providers, the start of that process was yesterday. Whilst I'm sure they will say that their arrangements remain "compliant" and have not been struck down by any Court and remain a valid means of retaining more of your income, the statement in the Blue Book yesterday is a warning you would be foolish to ignore.

    That warning was that "disguised remuneration" is not regarded by the Government as valid tax planning and would if required attract legislation that would be backdated to yesterday.

    I'm sure that there are many who will say that this is a position that can and will be challenged; it's intimidatory; it's designed to collect more revenue; it's HMG telling us how to arrange our affairs; etc. All very true.

    If we could run our businesses and personal affairs on principle and those include resisting interference, we would have a reasonable chance of winning any debate here.

    The fact is, we don't run our lives that way. We live in a practical world where HMG can and does make arbitrary and arguably unfair rules to fulfil their objectives (and those of society?) Their position here, clearly expressed, is that the world of contractors has to change. The sister threads in the "Future of Contracting" are worth a look in this regard.

    My point here is to encourage you to review your current arrangements and ask some questions.

    1. Is the arrangement quite complicated for what is essentially the payment of earnings?
    2. Is the purpose of that complexity to avoid tax?

    If the answers are "yes" and "yes", then principles aside, you WILL attract an HMRC investigation.

    Ultimately whether you remain in a scheme or join new ones I'm sure are being crafted now, is your decision.

    My opinion is one of many and scheme providers will have their own.

    I urge you though to think objectively and clearly here and make a decision soon, based on the likely consequences of staying or remaining.

    And read the book.
    Last edited by webberg; 26th November 2015 at 10:47. Reason: missing word
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  2. #2

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    Default

    Good post. Anyone in a scheme or thinking of joining one needs to be certified insane.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonkey71 View Post
    Good post. Anyone in a scheme or thinking of joining one needs to be certified insane.
    People said that in 2011.

    And still they did.

    I say again, if people can find this forum after HMRC come a'knocking, they could have found it before.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    People said that in 2011.

    And still they did.

    I say again, if people can find this forum after HMRC come a'knocking, they could have found it before.
    Totally agree, many contractors don't still know of this forum or the implications, I certainly didn't. So that is unfortunately a problem, getting the message out, and this is where HMRC have a moral duty to inform those who are engaged in these schemes NOW...not in x years time with a discovery assessment notice. At least if people continue, then they were duly warned.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    People said that in 2011.

    And still they did.

    I say again, if people can find this forum after HMRC come a'knocking, they could have found it before.
    Arguably, when they clobbered us with retro in 2008 that should have rung massive alarm bells.

    I remember, at the time, many promoters dismissing us a "special case" and that it couldn't happen to their schemes.

    Fast forward a few years and tens of thousands of contractors are in the shít.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    People said that in 2011.

    And still they did.

    I say again, if people can find this forum after HMRC come a'knocking, they could have found it before.
    First they came for the Montpelier users. Then the other scheme users(2011 etc.)

    And now they are coming for YOU and all the other "contractors" on here. Now I know you are a contractor. To HMRC you are a glorified typist who is a tax evader. To be hit with retrospective taxes, APNs and payments taken directly from your bank account.
    Fight HMRC now! Help sue HMRC individual officers/government ministers for malfeasance in office. Visit https://www.loanchargejustice.com/ and scroll to the bottom of the page to donate.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    People said that in 2011.

    And still they did.

    I say again, if people can find this forum after HMRC come a'knocking, they could have found it before.
    To be fair, they probably felt like they'd been given good advice and weren't in full on panic mode beforehand. However, I agree, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is, just like most things in life.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

  8. #8

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    As long as HMRC are seen to be agressive towards contractors generally, then the scheme promoters are laughing. There'll always be clients available who want to game the system. The new dividend tax is playing right into the scheme promoters hands, as are the T&S restrictions.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyRhubarb View Post
    Arguably, when they clobbered us with retro in 2008 that should have rung massive alarm bells.

    I remember, at the time, many promoters dismissing us a "special case" and that it couldn't happen to their schemes.

    Fast forward a few years and tens of thousands of contractors are in the shít.
    What also concerned me and you(and maybe a handful of others) is how much faith NTRT put in a parliamentary campaign. Complete waste of time. If you can't put on superhero suits and climb buildings you are stuffed.

    I just saw my old MP(CliveEfford) on TV. He was part of committee that approved retrospective legislation. He was not even aware he approved it. And did nothing to help fix the mess he created.

    Lots of "contractors" are now going to be bent over and take a sixteen incher(width) without lube. Good. I hope they come onto CUK and give a good whine so I can laugh at them.

    I wish I could say more about what is happening regarding NTRT! Careless talk costs court cases.....
    Fight HMRC now! Help sue HMRC individual officers/government ministers for malfeasance in office. Visit https://www.loanchargejustice.com/ and scroll to the bottom of the page to donate.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Bloggs View Post
    As long as HMRC are seen to be agressive towards contractors generally, then the scheme promoters are laughing. There'll always be clients available who want to game the system. The new dividend tax is playing right into the scheme promoters hands, as are the T&S restrictions.
    That was exactly the reason Montpelier attracted so many people in the naughties! To escape IR35.

    They are regretting it now. Or are they?
    Fight HMRC now! Help sue HMRC individual officers/government ministers for malfeasance in office. Visit https://www.loanchargejustice.com/ and scroll to the bottom of the page to donate.

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