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  1. #511

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    Quote Originally Posted by BolshieBastard View Post
    Quacks like a duck, walks like a duck.........
    Insults aside, can you answer the question of why I benefit from counselling that this a complicated situation in which we do not have full information and therefore should not leap to conclusions that may have no evidence?
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

  2. #512

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    There was a further development later last week which may have slipped under everyone's radar. WG applied to the Court for a "stay" in appointing the manager etc pending an appeal.

    The judgment relating to the "stay" application is here https://www.iomfsa.im/media/2644/judgment-101019.pdf and the application was refused.

  3. #513

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    Quote Originally Posted by piebaps View Post
    There was a further development later last week which may have slipped under everyone's radar. WG applied to the Court for a "stay" in appointing the manager etc pending an appeal.

    The judgment relating to the "stay" application is here https://www.iomfsa.im/media/2644/judgment-101019.pdf and the application was refused.
    Was the application refused because he was out of time like for the Huitson UTTT?

  4. #514

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    [placeholder]WG does a runner[/placeholder]

  5. #515

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrilloPad View Post
    Was the application refused because he was out of time like for the Huitson UTTT?
    For once no. It appears that the judge decided the application was without merit.

  6. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by piebaps View Post
    For once no. It appears that the judge decided the application was without merit.
    So much like WG then?

  7. #517

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    I have been thinking about this thread the last couple of days. I think it is very unfortunate that people who have given so much help get so heavily critized. I think Graham has do enormous amiounts to help people and the cause in general. I appreciate it and I think most do.

  8. #518

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    Default Review/Appeal progress

    So, back to all this APN/FN review/appeal etc business. 2 years later, after they kicked the can on the review process several times, the letters resumed in August. I accepted offer of review, and now they’ve finished that too (quelle surprise, the ‘independent review’, which was actually by an HMRC solicitor, agreed with everything, and ignored every point of my representation), and I now have the offer of an appeal. Which I reckon i will take.

    Something I can’t figure out, is why they keep writing to me, claiming that I owe X (which matches what they put on their first letters of 2010). I went through a lengthy process with the Debt Management Accelerated Payments Team, from 4 to 3 years ago, during which time I paid the required balance Y to zero. Now, I never did a full comparison of Y vs X, (it’s impossible to reconcile anything they do, so pointless) but Y wasn’t quite as much as X, and it seemed to me at the time that the difference was roughly the value of the NI. Why are they still writing to me demanding X, when in theory I actually owe them X-Y? I told them I had paid my balance to zero in the representations, providing a example payment receipt (from HMRC), and asked why they kept chasing me, as I believe the matter is now closed – they ignored this in their review (why??). I know they have different systems, because I had before (roughly the time when I sent in the FM / APN letters) a situation where the guy I called from the letter had no idea I’d paid anything, as his system was different to the one used by the team that collected the payments – he had no visibility of any of my payments activity (!!).

    I have now found their official letter (from 3.5 years ago), stating my balance is now zero, and will send this to them with my letter asking for appeal. Does that have enough legal weight to force them to go away?

    If it were to go to court – which it could in theory, as there is no way I will pay X, having already paid Y – they haven’t got a leg to stand on in my view, as they are chasing the wrong amount of money, and it would get thrown out by any (normal) judge due to them not doing their homework (and me presenting my letter showing zero balance).. Or would it, does all the money I’ve paid so far count for nothing?

    It feels like I am missing some important detail in all this. Am I??

    If there is still more to pay, I think I can now scrape together just about enough to cover the remainder, how do I make all this stop? (They provide no constructive guidance of course to help you do this, providing no other options except an appeal, effectively choosing to railroad you through a lengthy and costly expensive appeal process instead). I believe I cannot win, so then the issue simply becomes how much I have to pay – and is this correct amount, and when. Presumably, if/when I am ready, I simply write to say “I would like to settle”?

    Thanks,
    Steve.

  9. #519

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    Quote Originally Posted by outofthesand View Post
    So, back to all this APN/FN review/appeal etc business. 2 years later, after they kicked the can on the review process several times, the letters resumed in August. I accepted offer of review, and now they’ve finished that too (quelle surprise, the ‘independent review’, which was actually by an HMRC solicitor, agreed with everything, and ignored every point of my representation), and I now have the offer of an appeal. Which I reckon i will take.

    Something I can’t figure out, is why they keep writing to me, claiming that I owe X (which matches what they put on their first letters of 2010). I went through a lengthy process with the Debt Management Accelerated Payments Team, from 4 to 3 years ago, during which time I paid the required balance Y to zero. Now, I never did a full comparison of Y vs X, (it’s impossible to reconcile anything they do, so pointless) but Y wasn’t quite as much as X, and it seemed to me at the time that the difference was roughly the value of the NI. Why are they still writing to me demanding X, when in theory I actually owe them X-Y? I told them I had paid my balance to zero in the representations, providing a example payment receipt (from HMRC), and asked why they kept chasing me, as I believe the matter is now closed – they ignored this in their review (why??). I know they have different systems, because I had before (roughly the time when I sent in the FM / APN letters) a situation where the guy I called from the letter had no idea I’d paid anything, as his system was different to the one used by the team that collected the payments – he had no visibility of any of my payments activity (!!).

    I have now found their official letter (from 3.5 years ago), stating my balance is now zero, and will send this to them with my letter asking for appeal. Does that have enough legal weight to force them to go away?

    If it were to go to court – which it could in theory, as there is no way I will pay X, having already paid Y – they haven’t got a leg to stand on in my view, as they are chasing the wrong amount of money, and it would get thrown out by any (normal) judge due to them not doing their homework (and me presenting my letter showing zero balance).. Or would it, does all the money I’ve paid so far count for nothing?

    It feels like I am missing some important detail in all this. Am I??

    If there is still more to pay, I think I can now scrape together just about enough to cover the remainder, how do I make all this stop? (They provide no constructive guidance of course to help you do this, providing no other options except an appeal, effectively choosing to railroad you through a lengthy and costly expensive appeal process instead). I believe I cannot win, so then the issue simply becomes how much I have to pay – and is this correct amount, and when. Presumably, if/when I am ready, I simply write to say “I would like to settle”?

    Thanks,
    Steve.
    I suspect you need an adviser.

    HMRC are such *****s.

  10. #520

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    Quote Originally Posted by outofthesand View Post
    So, back to all this APN/FN review/appeal etc business. 2 years later, after they kicked the can on the review process several times, the letters resumed in August. I accepted offer of review, and now they’ve finished that too (quelle surprise, the ‘independent review’, which was actually by an HMRC solicitor, agreed with everything, and ignored every point of my representation), and I now have the offer of an appeal. Which I reckon i will take.
    This sounds like you received the APN\FN and either yourself or MP sent a 'Letter of Representation' asking HMRC review the issue of the APN\FN. For whatever reason, HMRC then sat on this request for about 2 years before finally deciding to give you a decision which upheld the issue of the APN\FN.

    You have now been offered the option to appeal to an FTT.


    Something I can’t figure out, is why they keep writing to me, claiming that I owe X (which matches what they put on their first letters of 2010). I went through a lengthy process with the Debt Management Accelerated Payments Team, from 4 to 3 years ago, during which time I paid the required balance Y to zero. Now, I never did a full comparison of Y vs X, (it’s impossible to reconcile anything they do, so pointless) but Y wasn’t quite as much as X, and it seemed to me at the time that the difference was roughly the value of the NI. Why are they still writing to me demanding X, when in theory I actually owe them X-Y? I told them I had paid my balance to zero in the representations, providing a example payment receipt (from HMRC), and asked why they kept chasing me, as I believe the matter is now closed – they ignored this in their review (why??). I know they have different systems, because I had before (roughly the time when I sent in the FM / APN letters) a situation where the guy I called from the letter had no idea I’d paid anything, as his system was different to the one used by the team that collected the payments – he had no visibility of any of my payments activity (!!).
    This sounds like following either the issue of your Letter of Representation or some point after HMRC issued your APN\FN, HMRC informed you that you did not need to pay the NI you 'owed' and hence the two differing amounts. However, HMRC have changed their line on the waiver of NI a couple of times.

    One of the reasons they changed their line was dependent on which part of the UK you lived in. Their view was their original decision to waive NI collection did not hold for the whole of the UK.

    Also, if you appeal to the FTT, HMRC's line is this negates their original NI waiver.

    I have now found their official letter (from 3.5 years ago), stating my balance is now zero, and will send this to them with my letter asking for appeal. Does that have enough legal weight to force them to go away?
    Sadly not imho for the reasons given above.

    If it were to go to court – which it could in theory, as there is no way I will pay X, having already paid Y – they haven’t got a leg to stand on in my view, as they are chasing the wrong amount of money, and it would get thrown out by any (normal) judge due to them not doing their homework (and me presenting my letter showing zero balance).. Or would it, does all the money I’ve paid so far count for nothing?
    It would be for the FTT to decide whether you owed all the monies including NI. I would not put any weight on the fact you have paid an amount excluding NI and HMRC are now asking for the whole amount as any grounds for their claim to be thrown out.

    It feels like I am missing some important detail in all this. Am I??

    If there is still more to pay, I think I can now scrape together just about enough to cover the remainder, how do I make all this stop? (They provide no constructive guidance of course to help you do this, providing no other options except an appeal, effectively choosing to railroad you through a lengthy and costly expensive appeal process instead). I believe I cannot win, so then the issue simply becomes how much I have to pay – and is this correct amount, and when. Presumably, if/when I am ready, I simply write to say “I would like to settle”?

    Thanks,
    Steve.
    The only way to make this 'stop' is either you appeal and the FTT find in your favour on all point and HMRC subsequently accept the decision.

    The other way is you pay HMRC in full. Bear in mind this may also include the NI element, any penalties and interest HMRC deem are due.
    I couldn't give two fornicators! Yes, really!

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