Loan Charge Action Group

[Laharnaman]

Death penalty...retrospectively

LOL. Or like seeing the death penalty reinstated....but being put into effect for crimes committed 20 years ago.

Retrospective Taxation =

Like falling pregnant now - 20yrs after having unprotected sex!

[cojak]

LOL. Or like seeing the death penalty reinstated....but being put into effect for crimes committed 20 years ago.

Crimes eh? Well that depends on whether you were punished for those crimes or appeared to get away scot-free.

Yours isn’t a great analogy as it turns out...

[KK1]

There wasn't a crime being committed by the vast majority when all this started, just advice from experts, but there are crimes being committed against the contractor community by series of self-serving organisations and various authorities .. the whole of the UK needs to wake up
bbc, doctors, nurses, you name it....
...my opinion only.

[LandRover]

There wasn't a crime being committed by the vast majority when all this started, just advice from experts, but there are crimes being committed against the contractor community by series of self-serving organisations and various authorities .. the whole of the UK needs to wake up
bbc, doctors, nurses, you name it....
...my opinion only.

I think many are starting to wake up to 2019LC.

Loan Charge Group is trying to push the message out to the wider media and public. The WATCH THIS THIS NOW video is being pushed out on social media, especially twitter.

https://www.hmrcloancharge.info/

People are putting in a lot of selfless effort and work into educating and informing not only ex-scheme users, aswell we all need to push the message forward.

Remember HMG has spent years damning us with the help of behavioural insights nudge unit.

[cojak]

There wasn't a crime being committed by the vast majority when all this started, just advice from experts, but there are crimes being committed against the contractor community by series of self-serving organisations and various authorities .. the whole of the UK needs to wake up
bbc, doctors, nurses, you name it....
...my opinion only.

That’s why the analogy was a bit rubbish.

[catesby]

It's no easy task for anyone to come up with a meaningful analogy for something as unprecedented and unexpected as this Finance Bill and the subsequent pain (both financial and emotional) that it's causing those affected.

I tend to think that when governments (of any hue) decide on a course of action such as this and and are actually allowed to get away with it (due to the fact that, in a political sense, they deduce the numbers involved are 'manageable'), then it's the thin end of an ever-expanding wedge. Once they've harvested more funds for the Treasury and squeezed this particular community dry, they'll try something else. Some bright spark in HMG may even suggest that the basic rate of income tax wasn't quite high enough during certain years and the higher level bracket should have been brought down a tad to capture a bit more revenue from a few more hard-working souls. They'll rub their hands together in eager anticipation of the next windfall of cash that will aid and abet their stage-managed attempts to persuade the public that it's all being done 'in their interest'. There might be an initial outcry, but the individual vs the machine is never a fair fight.

On the basis of this legislation, what's to stop them ? It doesn't matter what they have ever said in the past about maintaining trust in the system by never considering retrospective taxation, for it is sadly now an unnerving reality. And can therefore be used again. And probably again. Tactically, they are winning hands-down and when power is this absolute, everyone is in their sights regardless of whether or not they believe their tax affairs are currently within the bounds of the law as it stands today. Or not, it would unfortunately seem.

[malvolio]

Except their argument is that people were not adhering to the then current tax laws by taking advantage of a concession that was never intended to be applied to salary income (EBTs at base were meant to safeguard funds paid from already-taxed income). Obviously HMG has some (in fact, quite a lot of) blame here for not making the scope of the rules properly clear, but that does not alter the basic position, sadly.

OK, people may not have known that at the time since they were following apparently qualified advice, but that won't change HMG's position.

[Loan Ranger]

Unfortunately, loan scheme users are an easy target. There isn't much other fruit that's as low hanging as this.

legislation is relatively easy to draft and implement ✔
numbers of taxpayers involved won't affect an election ✔
easy to get through Parliament; no MPs of any party will oppose it ✔
no public sympathy; in fact public would support even more punitive measures ✔
several £billion windfall ✔

[catesby]

Unfortunately, loan scheme users are an easy target. There isn't much other fruit that's as low hanging as this.

legislation is relatively easy to draft and implement ✔
numbers of taxpayers involved won't affect an election ✔
easy to get through Parliament; no MPs of any party will oppose it ✔
no public sympathy; in fact public would support even more punitive measures ✔
brings in a few £billion ✔

...couldn't agree more. Still doesn't make it right though. Just like everything else that governments do as a self-serving enterprise. Maybe they can all give themselves a nice bonus on the back of it. Job well done and all that.

[catesby]

Except their argument is that people were not adhering to the then current tax laws by taking advantage of a concession that was never intended to be applied to salary income (EBTs at base were meant to safeguard funds paid from already-taxed income). Obviously HMG has some (in fact, quite a lot of) blame here for not making the scope of the rules properly clear, but that does not alter the basic position, sadly.

OK, people may not have known that at the time since they were following apparently qualified advice, but that won't change HMG's position.

I'm sure we all wouldn't mind being in a position where we've not made anything clear, yet can still demand a Hobbesian form of punishment for those people we failed by our own inertia and disinterest in the peddlers. Oh, and the full force of whatever law we feel like introducing to support our case. It's a sure thing for HMG because it's no contest when you wield power and target a minority. Win-win every time.