AML Loan Charge Calculator AML Loan Charge Calculator - Page 5
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  1. #41

    Still gathering requirements...


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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    In due course, it will be necessary to settle the year under enquiry. When that happens, the tax and interest due will be calculated, credit given for the loan charge paid and you will owe the difference.
    How does settlement play into other notices (eg APN)?

    And do you even have an option under the LC settlement terms to only settle on the open enquiry period?


    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    Defeating the loan charge is being attempted by:

    1. Political means, i.e. persuading HM Treasury to reverse or remove the law presently on the statute book.

    2. Judicial Review, i.e. persuade a Judge that the law contravenes human rights or natural justice or perhaps some other grounds.

    3. Particular schemes not being within the remit, i.e. a loan direct from an employer is technically outside the rules. Beware this one however as HMRC has already persuaded the GAAR Panel that even though the law is clear and unequivocal, because Parliament "intended" to include all loans, it is "natural" to extend the loan charge to such situations.

    4. Argue that there is no loan (which is what HMRC claim for income tax purposes) and instead the payment is either employment income or a trust distribution or some other beast.

    (The last may allow escape of the loan charge but not perhaps the tax liability).
    In 1 - 3 there is a chance to escape the loan charge any tax liability?

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmuk View Post
    Please could you clarify 'open years'? I assume you are referring to an HMRC open enquiry? And if so, does this scenario actually exist as I suspect HMRC have chosen to keep these enquiries open even though years have passed.




    Good point - there's this third scenario of hoping the law will be overturned.
    An open year is one which has had a valid enquiry opened under section 9A TMA 1970 or where a discovery assessment has been validly issued.

    There are a number of rules around that process and careful checking is required.

    HMRC does not and cannot "choose" to keep enquiries open. If you have a validly open year, then you are at liberty to push HMRC to "close" it. This starts with a closure notice which is meant to be a statement from HMRC explaining why they have adjusted (raised) your tax bill for that year. If HMRC will not issue that notice, you can apply to the Tribunal to force HMRC to do that.

    Once issued, if you disagree with their assessment, you can appeal and go to argue your case at Tribunal.

    It is a fallacy to think that only HMRC can control and run this process. They have obligations here just like you.

    Even if the loan charge law disappears, where you have open years you still have to deal with them.

    We wish all those campaigning for the law to the revoked the very best and hope they succeed. Even if they do however, the liability for open years remains to be dealt with.
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmuk View Post
    How does settlement play into other notices (eg APN)?

    And do you even have an option under the LC settlement terms to only settle on the open enquiry period?




    In 1 - 3 there is a chance to escape the loan charge any tax liability?
    An APN is a payment on account. When the final liability is agreed, it is a credit against that. Be careful with applying APN amounts against the loan charge because the latter, once paid, is non refundable. (I know - and I hope this is part of the various loan charge action group/JR plans).

    Yes.

    Escaping the loan charge?

    Depends who you speak to.

    LCAG and those backing the political/legal route will say "yes" by virtue of having the law revoked and/or declared invalid. If that is the case, then clearly the Government has the option to remake it perhaps in a different manner.

    Some scheme promoters and their tame advisers will claim that their scheme sits outside the legislation because a literal reading of the law can achieve that. Perhaps they can. However HMRC has already persuaded a GAAR Panel that the words in the law can be ignored where the intention of the law is contrary to that. This is not yet tested in Court but probably will be soon.

    Some advisers in this space, (long term or newly arrived), may have ideas or plans but you would need to discuss this with them as little is shared publicly.

    We have a strategy and you can call us to discuss it. Ours is part of a long term and wider plan rather than a stand alone. Dealing with the loan charge in isolation is pointless. You can call us and ask, initial call is free of charge.

    You need to do some research, get as much as you can for free, sit back and think, perhaps seek a second independent review and then decide. You have until the end of September before you need to disclose loan values.
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

  4. #44

    Should post faster


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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    An open year is one which has had a valid enquiry opened under section 9A TMA 1970 or where a discovery assessment has been validly issued.

    There are a number of rules around that process and careful checking is required.

    HMRC does not and cannot "choose" to keep enquiries open. If you have a validly open year, then you are at liberty to push HMRC to "close" it. This starts with a closure notice which is meant to be a statement from HMRC explaining why they have adjusted (raised) your tax bill for that year. If HMRC will not issue that notice, you can apply to the Tribunal to force HMRC to do that.

    Once issued, if you disagree with their assessment, you can appeal and go to argue your case at Tribunal.

    It is a fallacy to think that only HMRC can control and run this process. They have obligations here just like you.

    Even if the loan charge law disappears, where you have open years you still have to deal with them.

    We wish all those campaigning for the law to the revoked the very best and hope they succeed. Even if they do however, the liability for open years remains to be dealt with.
    So where there is an open year(s) but settlement has been completed, are the enquires still officially open? Assuming from HMRC perspective if they have reached settlement they won’t be perusing these further?
    Since I settled some prev years no confirmation has been rec.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iter View Post
    So where there is an open year(s) but settlement has been completed, are the enquires still officially open? Assuming from HMRC perspective if they have reached settlement they won’t be perusing these further?
    Since I settled some prev years no confirmation has been rec.
    If you have settled a year then it is closed.

    Enquires are at an end.
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

  6. #46

    Nervous Newbie


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    Nov 2018
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    Default Settlement Opt-in to actual closure timelines – HMRC delays

    Any idea on HMRC response times…I applied for settlement in May-18, received incorrect calculations in Apr-19 and after that no response since then. Not sure what’s point if they can keep on dragging this for 18 months. Their helpline is joke with standard response. Seems it has been set up so that they can tell in parliament that they are helping us but otherwise, those call centre staff cannot give any meaningful response.

    I am assuming, they may take months even to close after one accepts settlement terms.

    Has anybody tried raising this to their MP with any +ve outcome…

    With Regards,

  7. #47

    More time posting than coding


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    Quote Originally Posted by patel View Post
    Any idea on HMRC response times…I applied for settlement in May-18, received incorrect calculations in Apr-19 and after that no response since then. Not sure what’s point if they can keep on dragging this for 18 months. Their helpline is joke with standard response. Seems it has been set up so that they can tell in parliament that they are helping us but otherwise, those call centre staff cannot give any meaningful response.

    I am assuming, they may take months even to close after one accepts settlement terms.

    Has anybody tried raising this to their MP with any +ve outcome…

    With Regards,
    MPs, in general, seem to provoke a quick response from HMRC.

  8. #48

    Nervous Newbie


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    Jul 2019
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    Has anyone using SPM received this recently ? I received it yesterday

    Is this a new attempt to pass the buck ? I have not previously received this offer of assistance from them.


    From: "Tax (SP-MGT)" <tax@sp-mgt.com>
    Subject: 2018/19 Tax Return
    Date: 17 September 2019 at 15:51:12 BST
    To: “'


    Good afternoon,

    We are writing to advise that you have received self-employed income during the 2018/19 tax year, from ourselves, and therefore you are required to submit a self-assessment (SA) tax return to HMRC.

    If you would like assistance with your SA tax return, please follow the link below which will engage you directly with …..Accountant….. It will also authorise us to provide them with the relevant details to complete your SA tax return.

    Click Here

    Alternatively, if you have your own accountant, who completes your Self-Assessment (SA) tax return, or you complete it yourself, please see below income figures, which you will be required to include on your SA tax return. Please send these details to your accountant directly:

    Pages to Complete – Self employed (Short) Pages (SA103S)
    Business Name – Your Full Name
    Business Description – Sole Trader

    Total Self Employed Income - £ 11,255
    Start Date – Leave Blank
    End Date – Leave Blank
    Date Books Made up to – Leave Blank

    Please note that if you also received a dividend from your limited company please ensure the amount declared on your self-assessment matches the amounts declared in your company accounts.

    If you have any queries, please do not hesitate to contact us directly.

    Kind regards,

    Tax Department

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