CALL TO ACTION: Loan Charge debate on Thursday the 11th

[NeedTheSunshine]

...to be consigned to the dust of the history books.
I think that "winning" a debate, with no subsequent impact is of very little interest/consolation to those facing the tax bills.

It would be naive to think that Mel was going to stand up and agree to a delay and independent review.

What's the alternative to having the debate? Do nothing? Or is it better to follow the political process, which in this country seems to be rather long and drawn out.

[BrilloPad]

It would be naive to think that Mel was going to stand up and agree to a delay and independent review.

What's the alternative to having the debate? Do nothing? Or is it better to follow the political process, which in this country seems to be rather long and drawn out.

The JR route is probably the best bet.

[webberg]

I'll throw in an idea for LCAG to consider.

When the miners took on Maggie Thatcher, public opinion was swayed initially by the Tory Gov't creating wholly engineered and unnecessary power cuts.

Sympathy for the miners was quickly lost.

However the miners wives then started a movement and one that I think has survived to this day.

Suddenly the media was not filled with pictures of militant miners facing off police lines.

Suddenly if was Mrs Miner and her several (sometimes borrowed) children standing in line for food handouts.

Each contractor who is impacted here has at least one and often more dependents.

Why is there not a group pushing the story of these dependents? That would make much better media and PR than your average "earns twice the national average" IT type?

[NeedTheSunshine]

The JR route is probably the best bet.

The fastest resolution would be a political one. I quite like Webberg's idea that references the miners.

[BrilloPad]

The miners would having been better off keeping up the power cuts. I am not sure I can explain that on an internet forum. However when Dave Chick did the Tower Bridge crane demo, the last thing I told him was to close the roads. 3 days went by - not a sign of publicity. Then the roads were closed. 10 mile tail backs. Suddenly f4j are on the front page of every paper. No-one cares about fathers or their children. They do care about traffic jams.

I understand a political sluition would be nice. And LCAG got far further than I thought possible. I am not sure they can get this over the ine in the time available.

I now expect for those affected to play shoot the messenger. Instead of focusing thie ire on HMRC they will attack me. I have already seen unfair and unwarranted attacks on Phil and Graham(*) who are trying their best to help.

* I have invoked his name so maybe he will appear. And I thought I had to rub the lamp 3 times.....

[RobScott]

numbers matter

I'll throw in an idea for LCAG to consider.

When the miners took on Maggie Thatcher, public opinion was swayed initially by the Tory Gov't creating wholly engineered and unnecessary power cuts.

Sympathy for the miners was quickly lost.

However the miners wives then started a movement and one that I think has survived to this day.

Suddenly the media was not filled with pictures of militant miners facing off police lines.

Suddenly if was Mrs Miner and her several (sometimes borrowed) children standing in line for food handouts.

Each contractor who is impacted here has at least one and often more dependents.

Why is there not a group pushing the story of these dependents? That would make much better media and PR than your average "earns twice the national average" IT type?

50k to 100k were affected by LoanCharge but the number of protesters could be counted and not crossed 1000 I believe!

[dammit chloe]

I'll throw in an idea for LCAG to consider.

When the miners took on Maggie Thatcher, public opinion was swayed initially by the Tory Gov't creating wholly engineered and unnecessary power cuts.

Sympathy for the miners was quickly lost.

However the miners wives then started a movement and one that I think has survived to this day.

Suddenly the media was not filled with pictures of militant miners facing off police lines.

Suddenly if was Mrs Miner and her several (sometimes borrowed) children standing in line for food handouts.

Each contractor who is impacted here has at least one and often more dependents.

Why is there not a group pushing the story of these dependents? That would make much better media and PR than your average "earns twice the national average" IT type?

There has been some of that. We have had photos of families, children writing letters to the witch at no10. Getting traction is difficult and we simply don't have the large numbers and tight community that the miners had. If we did this may have been sorted by now.

Some local media have started to get interested but it was telling that at the first half of the debate it was only the leaky roof that was mentioned in the press.

This is going to be sorted by MPs or the Courts, not public opinion.

[BrilloPad]

This is going to be sorted by MPs or the Courts, not public opinion.

Public opinion cannot help you. MPs cannot help you. Courts can.

Remember NTRT. They launched a JR - against retrospection. The JR ruled Parliament can do what they want. ECHR backed that up.

I do hope LCAG is going to learn from NTRT.

[stonehenge]

Remember NTRT. They launched a JR - against retrospection. The JR ruled Parliament can do what they want. ECHR backed that up.

Surely that means courts are unlikely to be any help with the LC?

LCAG are in a better position with Parliament than NTRT were. Firstly, there are far more people affected by LC and, secondly, there are plenty of Tory MPs, in the current climate, who are willing to kick their Government.

[BrilloPad]

Surely that means courts are unlikely to be any help with the LC?

LCAG are in a better position with Parliament than NTRT were. Firstly, there are far more people affected by LC and, secondly, there are plenty of Tory MPs, in the current climate, who are willing to kick their Government.

You can never tell with courts. LCAG has(or should have) deeper pockets than NTRT so should get better advice. It is almost always the deepest pockets that wins.

I agree strongly about LCAG. They have run a fantastic campaign, exceeded my wildest expectations.

The thing is that the treasury and government are effectively linked. To stop HMRC, you have to stop the Treasury. Effectively you have to topple the government.

When push comes to shove, MPs don't like elections.