Loan Charge. What should I do.

[BrilloPad]

There seems to be a view on here from some that LCAG have failed and their cause is now futile. Far from it. Their achievements over the last year show that they are force to be reckoned with.

Also not sure why Phil Manley keeps getting dragged into it either.

What achievements? Loan Charge came in! I think their failure is down to not learning from the mistakes of others. If Phil Manley was the minimum level of campaigner there might be some sort of chance. He is the maximum.

To be fair, their cause is futile anyway. To get anywhere you would need to overthrow the government.

Do you actually believe in democracy? I bet you believe in sky fairies, santa claus and the tooth fairy too?

[NeedTheSunshine]

What achievements? Loan Charge came in! I think their failure is down to not learning from the mistakes of others. If Phil Manley was the minimum level of campaigner there might be some sort of chance. He is the maximum.

To be fair, their cause is futile anyway. To get anywhere you would need to overthrow the government.

Do you actually believe in democracy? I bet you believe in sky fairies, santa claus and the tooth fairy too?

How offensive and condescending. I don't think the fight is over so I must be a complete idiot.

No wonder politicians get away with the way they behave if people just give up. They want you to think any protest is futile.

Once again, you seem to be implying that Phil Manley is LCAG. Incorrect. Having said that, I have a lot of time for Phil Manley and don't get the hate that a few here seem to have for him.

[BrilloPad]

How offensive and condescending. I don't think the fight is over so I must be a complete idiot.

No wonder politicians get away with the way they behave if people just give up. They want you to think any protest is futile.

Once again, you seem to be implying that Phil Manley is LCAG. Incorrect. Having said that, I have a lot of time for Phil Manley and don't get the hate that a few here seem to have for him.

The fight against HMRC is roughly where mens civil rights against the family courts was in the 1990s.

[NeedTheSunshine]

The fight against HMRC is roughly where mens civil rights against the family courts was in the 1990s.

Well someone has to stand up and fight it. Seems most are just prepared to accept it, moan about it, but actually do nothing worthwhile and then pay up. Which is what the politicians expect, and to be honest, they don't have much reason to expect otherwise.

Outside of the loan charge there are those that can't see the whole retro ir35 issue looming extremely large on the horizon.....

[dammit chloe]

Well someone has to stand up and fight it. Seems most are just prepared to accept it, moan about it, but actually do nothing worthwhile and then pay up. Which is what the politicians expect, and to be honest, they don't have much reason to expect otherwise.

Outside of the loan charge there are those that can't see the whole retro ir35 issue looming extremely large on the horizon.....

Yup. Not going to win anything with apathy, detached cynicism and forum posts.

I think there have been a lot of achievements, if not ultimate the one, by LCAG. Maybe it is too late for LC victims but it is not a given yet as there are more deadlines and court cases to come.

Phil is the noisiest for sure, given his background he knows more about this than anyone. However he is not a member of LCAG, Philip Hammond should check his facts, and his been little involved for a long time now. Most of the progress from minor MP interest to support of both Houses and a very large and active APPG are down to more unsung but incredibly hard working members.

Still the greater benefit may be in the attention that LCAG has brought to MPs of the way that HMRC has been operating. It may make the path easier for those that follow. Who knows. Doing nothing but carping from sidelines makes no difference whatsoever.

[BrilloPad]

Doing nothing but carping from sidelines makes no difference whatsoever.

And thats the point you are missing. I have fought 2 major campaigns. One of them against HMRC.

What I am doing will make as much as a difference as you are. You need a major rethink.

I am waiting for a Matt O'Connor equivalent to come along.

[NeedTheSunshine]

And thats the point you are missing. I have fought 2 major campaigns. One of them against HMRC.

What I am doing will make as much as a difference as you are. You need a major rethink.

I am waiting for a Matt O'Connor equivalent to come along.

So did NTRT get the will of the HoC and HoL onside in less than a year? F4J went about their cause in a completely the wrong way.

Regardless, I believe LCAG will make a difference. Lessons learnt and all that.

You don't have to be condescending and bitter - you could take some pleasure in the fact that people are actually achieving something.

[dammit chloe]

And thats the point you are missing. I have fought 2 major campaigns. One of them against HMRC.

What I am doing will make as much as a difference as you are. You need a major rethink.

I am waiting for a Matt O'Connor equivalent to come along.

I am a humble foot soldier in all of this so I appreciate you have more experience. I am open to ideas about how to be more effective. I am hoping that there has to be some sort of inflexion point.

I am following the Richard Boyle case in Australia, machiavellian Government departments and colluding MPs are not unique to here.

From what I hear, many MPs themselves are surprised at how obstinate the Treasury are being as under normal circumstances we have way more than exceeded the support required for a review at the very least.