Tribunal and beyond Tribunal and beyond - Page 6
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    The disclosure obligations that we refer to as DOTAS do NOT use the phrases "employer" or "employee". They refer to arrangers, promoters and users.
    I refer to form AAG7 being introduced - which employERs are now obliged to provide to employEEs, as well as now disclosing employEE details to HMRC.

    AAG7 explained here (for reference for others):
    Disclosure of tax avoidance schemes (DOTAS) – revised form AAG6 and new form AAG7 | Tax Adviser

    I'm guessing that prior to this new legislation, employER's who used schemes which gained a tax advantage were not required to disclose to which employEE's that tax advantage was granted.
    Last edited by RickG; 2nd January 2020 at 14:43.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickG View Post
    I refer to form AAG7 being introduced - which employERs are now obliged to provide to employEEs, as well as now disclosing employEE details to HMRC.

    I'm guessing that prior to this new legislation, employER's who used schemes which gained a tax advantage were not required to disclose to which employEE's that tax advantage was granted.
    I understand the point but as observed at the time by the CIOT (and many others) a scheme implemented by an EMPLOYER is likely to result in an advantage to the EMPLOYER and not any other party.

    Even if that advantage is the reduction of PAYE due on employee salaries/payments, the benefit of the tax advantage is with the EMPLOYER.

    There is no look through which says that the EMPLOYER benefit arises in respect of or due to a particular employee. This was the basis of the CIOT objection to the introduction of a form which seemed designed to capture one scheme only and which otherwise would simply spread confusion and alarm in employees.

    If you are in that one scheme and have had a DOTAS SRN advised but the employer and have disclosed it via your tax return, then you have a decent chance of that being seen as full disclosure.
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  3. #53

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    Wonder if anyone has any thoughts on whether the courts are going to look at long-standing, unprogressed enquiries favourably or not.

    I notice that someone has tweeted a 2017 case where HMRC failed because an enquiry was open for 3 years without being progressed. Obviously pre-2010 ones are way, way outside this and a lot of post 2010 too.

    In my average Joe opinion, that ought to be the first line of attack in any tribunal before hammering out any scheme details/validity. Could cut HMRC off at the knees.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by dammit chloe View Post
    Wonder if anyone has any thoughts on whether the courts are going to look at long-standing, unprogressed enquiries favourably or not.

    I notice that someone has tweeted a 2017 case where HMRC failed because an enquiry was open for 3 years without being progressed. Obviously pre-2010 ones are way, way outside this and a lot of post 2010 too.

    In my average Joe opinion, that ought to be the first line of attack in any tribunal before hammering out any scheme details/validity. Could cut HMRC off at the knees.
    Be aware that for reasons unknown, the twitter interpretations of the have allowed an inaccurate set of conclusions to be drawn from this case.

    I'll be posting my analysis in about 30 minutes.
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  5. #55

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  6. #56

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    Default Update if possible please Graham

    Scheme - Montpelier DTA
    Case - Lancashire, Lee
    Stage - FTT
    Result - not yet published

    Scheme - Steed self employed - Avenue - Marra - Kirium - Invicta - Edge - Horizon
    Case - TBA
    Stage - FTT
    Result - preparing for first hearing

    Is WTT taking these cases to FTT?
    When do you expect to have dates?

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clairol View Post
    Scheme - Montpelier DTA
    Case - Lancashire, Lee
    Stage - FTT
    Result - not yet published

    Scheme - Steed self employed - Avenue - Marra - Kirium - Invicta - Edge - Horizon
    Case - TBA
    Stage - FTT
    Result - preparing for first hearing

    Is WTT taking these cases to FTT?
    When do you expect to have dates?
    If you are a Big Group member, you have a series of newsletters that will tell you where we are.

    They also explain why we have limited the information we share with members (to prevent making a gift of 5 years research - paid for by members - to those playing catch up).

    We do not and will not share the information you are asking for in a public place.

    If you are a BG member, please call us.
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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clairol View Post
    Scheme - Montpelier DTA
    Case - Lancashire, Lee
    Stage - FTT
    Result - not yet published
    The tribunal was held in May 2019. The verdict will probably be out in the next few months.

    It cost NTRT the best part of £1M (yep, million!) to get the case to tribunal. Go figure.
    Last edited by More Lamb; 24th January 2020 at 12:56.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    If you are a Big Group member, you have a series of newsletters that will tell you where we are.

    They also explain why we have limited the information we share with members (to prevent making a gift of 5 years research - paid for by members - to those playing catch up).

    We do not and will not share the information you are asking for in a public place.

    If you are a BG member, please call us.
    I am a member, I will look for it in the latest newsletter. Thank you.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clairol View Post
    Scheme - Montpelier DTA
    Case - Lancashire, Lee
    Stage - FTT
    Result - not yet published

    Scheme - Steed self employed - Avenue - Marra - Kirium - Invicta - Edge - Horizon
    Case - TBA
    Stage - FTT
    Result - preparing for first hearing

    Is WTT taking these cases to FTT?
    When do you expect to have dates?
    Big Group have absolutely nothing to do with the Montpelier DTA nor the FTT.

    Neither is there any indication when the judgement will be delivered so please do not listen to uninformed posters such as More Lamb.
    Last edited by BolshieBastard; 24th January 2020 at 14:09.
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