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Tribunal and beyond

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    #51
    Originally posted by webberg View Post
    The disclosure obligations that we refer to as DOTAS do NOT use the phrases "employer" or "employee". They refer to arrangers, promoters and users.
    I refer to form AAG7 being introduced - which employERs are now obliged to provide to employEEs, as well as now disclosing employEE details to HMRC.

    AAG7 explained here (for reference for others):
    Disclosure of tax avoidance schemes (DOTAS) – revised form AAG6 and new form AAG7 | Tax Adviser

    I'm guessing that prior to this new legislation, employER's who used schemes which gained a tax advantage were not required to disclose to which employEE's that tax advantage was granted.
    Last edited by RickG; 2 January 2020, 14:43.

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      #52
      Originally posted by RickG View Post
      I refer to form AAG7 being introduced - which employERs are now obliged to provide to employEEs, as well as now disclosing employEE details to HMRC.

      I'm guessing that prior to this new legislation, employER's who used schemes which gained a tax advantage were not required to disclose to which employEE's that tax advantage was granted.
      I understand the point but as observed at the time by the CIOT (and many others) a scheme implemented by an EMPLOYER is likely to result in an advantage to the EMPLOYER and not any other party.

      Even if that advantage is the reduction of PAYE due on employee salaries/payments, the benefit of the tax advantage is with the EMPLOYER.

      There is no look through which says that the EMPLOYER benefit arises in respect of or due to a particular employee. This was the basis of the CIOT objection to the introduction of a form which seemed designed to capture one scheme only and which otherwise would simply spread confusion and alarm in employees.

      If you are in that one scheme and have had a DOTAS SRN advised but the employer and have disclosed it via your tax return, then you have a decent chance of that being seen as full disclosure.
      Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

      (No, me neither).

      Comment


        #53
        Wonder if anyone has any thoughts on whether the courts are going to look at long-standing, unprogressed enquiries favourably or not.

        I notice that someone has tweeted a 2017 case where HMRC failed because an enquiry was open for 3 years without being progressed. Obviously pre-2010 ones are way, way outside this and a lot of post 2010 too.

        In my average Joe opinion, that ought to be the first line of attack in any tribunal before hammering out any scheme details/validity. Could cut HMRC off at the knees.

        Comment


          #54
          Originally posted by dammit chloe View Post
          Wonder if anyone has any thoughts on whether the courts are going to look at long-standing, unprogressed enquiries favourably or not.

          I notice that someone has tweeted a 2017 case where HMRC failed because an enquiry was open for 3 years without being progressed. Obviously pre-2010 ones are way, way outside this and a lot of post 2010 too.

          In my average Joe opinion, that ought to be the first line of attack in any tribunal before hammering out any scheme details/validity. Could cut HMRC off at the knees.
          Be aware that for reasons unknown, the twitter interpretations of the have allowed an inaccurate set of conclusions to be drawn from this case.

          I'll be posting my analysis in about 30 minutes.
          Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

          (No, me neither).

          Comment


            #55
            Here:

            https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2713162
            Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

            (No, me neither).

            Comment


              #56
              Update if possible please Graham

              Scheme - Montpelier DTA
              Case - Lancashire, Lee
              Stage - FTT
              Result - not yet published

              Scheme - Steed self employed - Avenue - Marra - Kirium - Invicta - Edge - Horizon
              Case - TBA
              Stage - FTT
              Result - preparing for first hearing

              Is WTT taking these cases to FTT?
              When do you expect to have dates?

              Comment


                #57
                Originally posted by Clairol View Post
                Scheme - Montpelier DTA
                Case - Lancashire, Lee
                Stage - FTT
                Result - not yet published

                Scheme - Steed self employed - Avenue - Marra - Kirium - Invicta - Edge - Horizon
                Case - TBA
                Stage - FTT
                Result - preparing for first hearing

                Is WTT taking these cases to FTT?
                When do you expect to have dates?
                If you are a Big Group member, you have a series of newsletters that will tell you where we are.

                They also explain why we have limited the information we share with members (to prevent making a gift of 5 years research - paid for by members - to those playing catch up).

                We do not and will not share the information you are asking for in a public place.

                If you are a BG member, please call us.
                Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

                (No, me neither).

                Comment


                  #58
                  Originally posted by Clairol View Post
                  Scheme - Montpelier DTA
                  Case - Lancashire, Lee
                  Stage - FTT
                  Result - not yet published
                  The tribunal was held in May 2019. The verdict will probably be out in the next few months.

                  <mod snip>
                  Last edited by cojak; 9 March 2020, 07:51. Reason: Request to remove sensitive info.

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Originally posted by webberg View Post
                    If you are a Big Group member, you have a series of newsletters that will tell you where we are.

                    They also explain why we have limited the information we share with members (to prevent making a gift of 5 years research - paid for by members - to those playing catch up).

                    We do not and will not share the information you are asking for in a public place.

                    If you are a BG member, please call us.
                    I am a member, I will look for it in the latest newsletter. Thank you.

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Originally posted by Clairol View Post
                      Scheme - Montpelier DTA
                      Case - Lancashire, Lee
                      Stage - FTT
                      Result - not yet published

                      Scheme - Steed self employed - Avenue - Marra - Kirium - Invicta - Edge - Horizon
                      Case - TBA
                      Stage - FTT
                      Result - preparing for first hearing

                      Is WTT taking these cases to FTT?
                      When do you expect to have dates?
                      Big Group have absolutely nothing to do with the Montpelier DTA nor the FTT.

                      Neither is there any indication when the judgement will be delivered so please do not listen to uninformed posters such as More Lamb.
                      Last edited by BolshieBastard; 24 January 2020, 14:09.
                      I couldn't give two fornicators! Yes, really!

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