LC, APN - despair ?

[divine-elle]

Hi,

I’m Desperate and Distressed, I’ve considered ending things twice this week and it’s only Wednesday.

My situation:
LC - Estimated amount of loans that fall under the legislation is 700k ( circa 12 years of using AML/ Smartpay et al).
I don’t understand tax law and have blindly trusted aml et al for too long as they were adamant they worked closely with HMRC and their methodology was /is complaint with Legal Council support.

Two different Financial advisors and current accountant (costs incurred ) were engaged in the matter but there was little to no clarity / understanding of the way forward and what’s in my best interest for the medium / long term (Simply disclose loans to HMRC and find a way to pay).

Desperate and in a dark place I turned to both pts and vanquish (aml/ spm recommendation ). PTS estimated the LC to be around 300k so i hastily/ stupidly used vanquish and I’m now distressed about the route taken and don’t fully understand the implications . From my understanding vanquish will inform hmrc there are no outstanding loans, I’m freaked out about the consequences. Can anyone shed light on this and should i tell vanquish not to submit a thing and write off what I’ve paid them?

As i see it for the Sep 2019 loan disclosure I have a few options but I have no real idea of the impact of;
1. disclosing loans and vanquish state there are no loans (I don’t know the exact terminology)
2. Disclosing loans informing vanquish not to communicate with hmrc
3. Do nothing for the September deadline
4. Disclose after September

Disclosing when I don’t have even 10% of the potential amount seems like more stress and could take me over the edge. I don’t have the funds for 1 or 2 (assumption is a settlement / charge amount will be issued by HMRC). In this climate selling my property will take time. I don’t even think it will cover the 300k. Reading threads NI might also be applied at a future date.

Amy ideas / considerations?

Then theres the APN ( three years of the 12 are covered / overlapping with this charge ) - these three years were under hmrc enquiry from what i recall.
APNs total are around 45k. HMRC recently called me , sent letters and have threatened enforcement. AML are no longer pursuing legal action and recommend to settle the matter. I consulted a financial advisor and accountant who recommended the same.
Partial payment has been made to hold off enforcement and I’ve resorted to applying for a further advance to address this as I don’t want a ccj.
HMRC have shaken me to the core, I’m on edge and panic when i see a call / letter/ email that’s unfamiliar.
Taking out debt to pay ‘debit ‘ is mind-blowing and I’min limbo waiting for the mortgage providers response. I don’t even know if I should pay - so much

I no longer know who to speak to, trust or turn too and don’t want to muddy the waters further. I’m panicking over my stupidity and not sure what to do, I’ve let my family down. The lack of sleep is not helping matters but if I could make some sense of it all I could weigh up options and establish what the future might hold.

Please no abuse in responses , anyone out there with similar lc amounts?

[stonehenge]

Do not despair. The situation is almost certainly not as hopeless as you think.

If I were you, I would forget Vanquish. Chances are they are just going to land you in even deeper trouble.

There's every chance HMRC will agree to a very long term TTP arrangement (payment plan). 10 years, maybe even 20 years.

If HMRC won't play ball, go and visit your Member of Parliament. MPs are very good at making HMRC see sense.

Don't be ashamed to admit that you've contemplated suicide. If that is on record with HMRC, they are more likely to behave themselves.

[BrilloPad]

I have PMed. If anyone else feels they need help, please PM me. I have been in a similar position to you. And I have helped several in your shoes. Sadly I have much experience of miserable experiences. And my brother committed suicide in Feb this year. I don't want to lose any more.

I wish I could say more but the CUK trolls will have a field day.

[stonehenge]

Can you tell me how many of the 12 years are protected (open), and how many are unprotected (closed).

Protected (open) means HMRC investigated the year by opening an enquiry or raising a (discovery) assessment.
Unprotected (closed) means HMRC did not investigate the year.

If you have mostly unprotected (closed) years, it makes settlement more attractive because there is no interest on closed years.

In general, the LC is the worst way to go because all 12 years of loans will be taxed as income in a single year (2018/19).

[lowpaidworker]

please make sure you join LCAG if you haven't already.

There are a few people on here that can help. Webberg being one. I would try and get in contact with him.

[divine-elle]

Can you tell me how many of the 12 years are protected (open), and how many are unprotected (closed).

Protected (open) means HMRC investigated the year by opening an enquiry or raising a (discovery) assessment.
Unprotected (closed) means HMRC did not investigate the year.

If you have mostly unprotected (closed) years, it makes settlement more attractive because there is no interest on closed years.

In general, the LC is the worst way to go because all 12 years of loans will be taxed as income in a single year (2018/19).

Hi,

I don't know the exact details, I think it's 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. Three of these have APN's (2009, 2010 and 2011). After the last few weeks I've had with HMRC and the APN right now I don't have the fight in me to call them to find out.

Can the info be requested without opening up another can of worms?

Thanks

[NotAllThere]

... the CUK trolls will have a field day.

Not in this section, however.

[stonehenge]

Hi,

I don't know the exact details, I think it's 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. Three of these have APN's (2009, 2010 and 2011). After the last few weeks I've had with HMRC and the APN right now I don't have the fight in me to call them to find out.

Can the info be requested without opening up another can of worms?

Thanks

Are AML still responding to requests for information? If so, email them and ask them for the following:

1) the amount of loans you received in each year
2) which years are protected (under enquiry/assessment) by HMRC, and which years are unprotected

Ideally, you also need to know how much salary you received in each year, and how much tax you already paid in each year. (But we can guestimate that. The loan amounts are the most important.)

What we are trying to work out here is:

a) how much it would cost you to settle (tax + interest)
b) how much it would cost you to pay the LC (tax)

That's the starting point. Then it's a case of whether you could pay part by lump sum, plus how much you could realistically pay per month to clear the debt.

[stonehenge]

Back of an envelope estimate

Loan Charge

Based on £700k loans, £300k tax sounds about right. Assuming you had earnings in 2018/19, most of the loans will be taxed at 45%.

Settlement

Assuming £60k loans per year for 12 years. Assuming £20k PAYE salary in those years, on which you paid about £3k tax.

You're probably looking at around an extra £20k/year in tax. For 12 years, that would be £240k.

The unknown is the interest, which is where the protected vs unprotected comes in.

[divine-elle]

Are AML still responding to requests for information? If so, email them and ask them for the following:

1) the amount of loans you received in each year
2) which years are protected (under enquiry/assessment) by HMRC, and which years are unprotected

Ideally, you also need to know how much salary you received in each year, and how much tax you already paid in each year. (But we can guestimate that. The loan amounts are the most important.)

What we are trying to work out here is:

a) how much it would cost you to settle (tax + interest)
b) how much it would cost you to pay the LC (tax)

That's the starting point. Then it's a case of whether you could pay part by lump sum, plus how much you could realistically pay per month to clear the debt.

Thank you so much for taking the time out to reply
I'll contact AML / SPM and ask for the information

In terms of Vanquish - should i put a stop to them contacting HMRC with the loan repayment info (assuming that what they have told me is correct and nothing has been set to HMRC yet)?