Is it too late to request settlement? Is it too late to request settlement? - Page 2
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    Except - as I keep saying - the loan charge is NOT the end of the process.

    I'm aware that many people think that if HMRC get the LC money then they will stop all enquiries into open years.

    This is simply untrue and untenable under present legislation.

    We fear that many people are pinning their hopes on the loan charge disappearing under the weight of political pressure.

    Even if that happens, if you have open years (valid HMRC enquiries), then HMRC would certainly restart the process.

    Killing the loan charge is not the end of the process.
    Yes that much will always be true. Though one might imagine HMRC taking decades to get back to any open enquiries once they have their hands on the LC money.

    Also I wonder, there are many (probably more?) people with closed years than open. In which case, should the LC fall away, then that will be the end of the matter. And in this case, in a country now devoid of both logic and justice, Hope is all we have.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    Except - as I keep saying - the loan charge is NOT the end of the process.

    I'm aware that many people think that if HMRC get the LC money then they will stop all enquiries into open years.

    This is simply untrue and untenable under present legislation.

    We fear that many people are pinning their hopes on the loan charge disappearing under the weight of political pressure.

    Even if that happens, if you have open years (valid HMRC enquiries), then HMRC would certainly restart the process.

    Killing the loan charge is not the end of the process.
    Ever considered a career in PR for HMRC?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by stonehenge View Post
    Ever considered a career in PR for HMRC?
    Only as a temporary, outside IR35 option.

    TMA 1970 has the present iteration of how enquiries are opened and closed. It's coming up to 50 years old. It is itself an iteration of an earlier act which had similar principles (even though it was pre self assessment).

    Go and read it. Please. It's valid UK legislation and applies to you, me, HMRC and everybody else hoping the loan charge will disappear.

    This is the basis upon which we advise our clients.

    I'm now tired of repeating myself on this point and will cease responding on it.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    Only as a temporary, outside IR35 option.

    TMA 1970 has the present iteration of how enquiries are opened and closed. It's coming up to 50 years old. It is itself an iteration of an earlier act which had similar principles (even though it was pre self assessment).

    Go and read it. Please. It's valid UK legislation and applies to you, me, HMRC and everybody else hoping the loan charge will disappear.

    This is the basis upon which we advise our clients.

    I'm now tired of repeating myself on this point and will cease responding on it.
    Except that HMRC have overridden TMA 1970 by implementing the LC. Especially in reference to my earlier post, those with only closed years from > 6 years ago.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChimpMaster View Post
    Except that HMRC have overridden TMA 1970 by implementing the LC. Especially in reference to my earlier post, those with only closed years from > 6 years ago.
    Can you show me the legislation passed which removed/revoked or amended TMA 1970?
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    Can you show me the legislation passed which removed/revoked or amended TMA 1970?
    Obviously I cannot, but the feeling stands that the LC overrides everything we expect from the laws surrounding tax enquiry timeframes.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by webberg View Post
    Can you show me the legislation passed which removed/revoked or amended TMA 1970?
    Not removed, but cunningly bypassed certainly.

    • The Part 7A charge applying in April 2019 (aka The Loan Charge).
    • Part 7A being a notional payment, allowing Reg 81 to apply automatically.
    • Technical note upon technical note (HMRC interpretation, I believe - correct me if Im wrong) to disallow offset of an unpaid debt by an employer on the liability raised on the employee - Tackling disguised remuneration: draft guidance for changes to Part 7A - GOV.UK

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickG View Post
    Not removed, but cunningly bypassed certainly.

    • The Part 7A charge applying in April 2019 (aka The Loan Charge).
    • Part 7A being a notional payment, allowing Reg 81 to apply automatically.
    • Technical note upon technical note (HMRC interpretation, I believe - correct me if Im wrong) to disallow offset of an unpaid debt by an employer on the liability raised on the employee - Tackling disguised remuneration: draft guidance for changes to Part 7A - GOV.UK
    I'm not sure that the second part of the above is correct.

    The rules on Loan Charge permit a transfer of liability from liable party - employer - to recipient - employee. That I agree with.

    The rules of receipts falling within Part 7A (but excluding the loan charge) do permit transfer but only in specific circumstances.

    HMRC is very adept at suggesting that the wider powers they have under LC rules can apply to ALL Part 7A payments. We think that has more to do with what HMRC want you to think than what is in the law.
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