• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Pembroke PAYE Umbrella closing down

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by webberg View Post
    Pembroke owes you no duty of care. They are not professional advisers. You did not engage them for professional advice.

    If you thought you did, see a recent case (CR-2018-001831 Toone and Paourou vs Ross and Bell) in which a Court held that commentary from (in that instance) Premier Strategies and others, was not the sort of professional advice that a reasonable man could or should rely upon. In essence parties who have a potential conflict of interest in the "advice" they give were not considered by the Court to be suitable, independent, unbiased, sources of advice.
    Ooh, that's a massive ouch, and I'll be saving this post to direct others to it...
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

    Comment


      #32
      Just be careful.

      IN the context of the case, he advice was thought to be unsuitable.

      Where though does that leave the many hundreds who entered loan schemes based on the thinnest veneer of words from a promoter - or just on the word of a mate?

      If HMRC decide that to do this is "careless", then open season on penalties is possible.

      So, taking advice from a conflicted source is not reasonable (depending on circs); taking advice from an unbiased party is reasonable. Taking no advice at all?
      Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

      (No, me neither).

      Comment


        #33
        Thank you.

        Pretty much as expected.

        Advice on this was from Pembroke, an umbrella compare company, multiple individuals on similar contracts, a city based consultancy and a tax advisor (who only said, at first glance it appears to be outside of the loan charge).

        Granted, none of those are independent and could be relied on for advice alone but as a group I thought that they could be trusted... A silly mistake I think.

        Thanks for the advice.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by AnthonyB View Post
          Thank you.

          Advice on this was from Pembroke, an umbrella compare company, multiple individuals on similar contracts, a city based consultancy and a tax advisor (who only said, at first glance it appears to be outside of the loan charge).

          .
          The first three have skin in the game and are not independent.

          The city based consultancy? Depends on their level of expertise.

          The tax advisor? If they are good enough to be able to assess the scheme and its relevance or otherwise to the loan charge and understand the loan charge in enough detail and technical analysis to be able to give a confident answer with no caveats, you should go with them and have them put that in writing.
          Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

          (No, me neither).

          Comment


            #35
            Liquidators are in

            Hi, late to this group. I have been dumb enough to believe Pembroke, I questioned if they were HMRC complaint and was told over and over again that they were - I obviously wanted this to be true to convinced myself. So for almost 16 months I used them as my umbrella company. I was contacted by HMRC via a threatening letter so I went back to Pembroke and once again they tried to fob me off...I was advised to get some serious help by my brother who is a financial advisor so I went looking for some tax experts and found a very good one.

            We went to a solicitor and asked Pembroke to write off my “loans” as I was going to settle with HMRC, they agreed but did sod all...I approached HMRC and paid back the tax I owed...so now financially screwed I am hoping that at some point I can put this behind me BUT now liquidators have come in and my worry is that they will somehow try to collect these “loans”...the money paye and loan was earned by me and was always mine but I know that is naive to think that somehow HMRC and liquidators will agree with me.

            I was dumb but I am amazed that these companies are allowed to do this? I have been ruined and have never ever been as stressed as this, I am lucky to have friends and family who have helped me get through it but I can see how this can send people over the edge...their company closed - will anything ever happen to the owners of these companies?

            Has anyone heard more about this ?

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Johanandbe View Post
              Hi, late to this group. I have been dumb enough to believe Pembroke, I questioned if they were HMRC complaint and was told over and over again that they were - I obviously wanted this to be true to convinced myself. So for almost 16 months I used them as my umbrella company. I was contacted by HMRC via a threatening letter so I went back to Pembroke and once again they tried to fob me off...I was advised to get some serious help by my brother who is a financial advisor so I went looking for some tax experts and found a very good one.

              We went to a solicitor and asked Pembroke to write off my “loans” as I was going to settle with HMRC, they agreed but did sod all...I approached HMRC and paid back the tax I owed...so now financially screwed I am hoping that at some point I can put this behind me BUT now liquidators have come in and my worry is that they will somehow try to collect these “loans”...the money paye and loan was earned by me and was always mine but I know that is naive to think that somehow HMRC and liquidators will agree with me.

              I was dumb but I am amazed that these companies are allowed to do this? I have been ruined and have never ever been as stressed as this, I am lucky to have friends and family who have helped me get through it but I can see how this can send people over the edge...their company closed - will anything ever happen to the owners of these companies?

              Has anyone heard more about this ?
              Hi mate, I tried to PM you but it wouldn't allow me. It would be good to connect and discuss the situation. It seems you are ten steps ahead of me.
              I'm planning to drag my feet, doing everything as late as possible in the hope that things become clearer and WTT win a few cases with HMRC.
              It would be good if you could send me a PM.

              Comment


                #37
                I've asked for PM rights to be given.
                "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
                - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

                Comment


                  #38
                  Sorry for the delay, PM rights now granted.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Thank you.

                    Given the way in which these 'loans' were issued I think Pembroke would struggle to call for them to be repaid. As someone that's worked a fair bit in FS, regulation, PPI etc. I'm fairly sure a high street bank would be told to sod off if it tried to recall this cash and potentially even fined for mis-selling loans to un-suspecting/un-informed individuals. In laymans terms, lying to create a credit agreement...

                    Comment


                      #40
                      A few thoughts here.

                      Those who used Pembroke (or any of its 14 - and counting - connected outfits) will have entered into a series of agreements. That is a legally binding agreement that carries rights and obligations for both parties. No amount of tax law is going to change that fact.

                      A court may at some time be required to decide if the agreement signed is impacted by the tax analysis but that has yet to happen. A tax court asked to decide on contract matters, or vice versa, is likely to be found only at a level which deals in legal analysis and not in a first tier court which looks primarily at facts.

                      The jeopardy created by the case at the top of this thread is both for individual and HMRC. The Judge there - an insolvency court Judge - decided that a payment made by a company was unlawful as it amounted to a distribution of funds without thought for the creditors. He said however it was a distribution of company CAPITAL.

                      I'm not sure what he thought that meant for tax purposes - indeed if he gave it any thought at all. However a CAPITAL distribution has certain tax implications and those are directly contrary to what the Supreme Court said in Rangers. How do we reconcile these? It's not easy and is a matter that will require further Judicial effort over the coming years.

                      In the case of Pembroke however it may be useful. If the money paid to you was actually a distribution by the directors of the company CAPITAL, how can it also be a loan?

                      Interesting times indeed.
                      Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

                      (No, me neither).

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X