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Loan charge - HMRC update

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    #21
    Originally posted by webberg View Post
    The single biggest problem in clearing up this mess is the fact that contractors who used the schemes, still lend credence to what promoters and their then advisers continue to say.

    Rather than listen to the (admittedly few) advisers who have no bias or conflict, they chose to think that promoters et al have some magic bullet waiting to be fired.

    They don't.

    The schemes certainly post 2010 were always at best a punt and at worst borderline evasion.

    The rules have all changed and I;ve not seen one opinion from a scheme which I believe would be accepted by a Tribunal as a valid argument.

    Clearly I could be wrong but given the general drift towards a technical argument that we first deployed over 4 years ago and which is now being used by just about all serious players in the market, it has more going for it than the ramblings of yesterdays people.
    A punt? I could say that Promoters couldn't give a punt for telling us anything other than we were all okay.

    As for bordering on evasion...the deceit from promoters and accountants (chartered ones too) was bordering on fraud. Plenty of literature, emails and letters prove this.
    http://www.dotas-scandal.org LCAG Join Us

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      #22
      Originally posted by LandRover View Post

      the deceit from promoters and accountants (chartered ones too) was bordering on fraud. Plenty of literature, emails and letters prove this.
      I was not excepting my fellow professionals in this.

      I have got myself into trouble before being a little too vocal about the failings of those who know something about tax (other than how to avoid it) and how they should shoulder some of the blame.

      I used to think that such criticism was unfair, viewing them and their actions with 20/20 hindsight, but the more I read about the schemes and the papers used to support and sell them, the less and less balanced the actions of some (more than a few I'm afraid to say) are hard to justify.
      Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

      (No, me neither).

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by webberg View Post
        I was not excepting my fellow professionals in this.

        I have got myself into trouble before being a little too vocal about the failings of those who know something about tax (other than how to avoid it) and how they should shoulder some of the blame.

        I used to think that such criticism was unfair, viewing them and their actions with 20/20 hindsight, but the more I read about the schemes and the papers used to support and sell them, the less and less balanced the actions of some (more than a few I'm afraid to say) are hard to justify.
        How on earth have these people come away unscathed. I haven't read SAMs report in full yet. Does he not make any retrospective punishment recommendations.

        Whilst HMRC publications and notices are hidden better than Stealth bomber to people on the street these promotors and tax advises would have read or knew about every single annoucement HMRC made and yet post 2010/11 still continued to sell these schemes as approved or valid. Surely thats criminal. Surely they are not untouchable?

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          #24
          Originally posted by lowpaidworker View Post
          Surely they are not untouchable?
          I bet the ones still selling schemes now will also get away with it.

          The rules, and sanctions, for promoters are tougher than they were a decade ago, but I imagine they find ways around them.
          Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by webberg View Post
            Find out how the changes to the loan charge affect you - GOV.UK

            Some interesting nuggets to chew on here.
            Could I ask a question to seek a little clarity. If I am someone who took out loans prior to December 2010, and had no open enquiry, should I presume that I will be exempt from the loan charge, and from submitting any further information on tax returns? Presumably, it would be difficult to open an enquiry and the notion of disclosure (pre December 2010) might also be irrelevant?

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              #26
              Originally posted by Virtualguy View Post
              Could I ask a question to seek a little clarity. If I am someone who took out loans prior to December 2010, and had no open enquiry, should I presume that I will be exempt from the loan charge, and from submitting any further information on tax returns? Presumably, it would be difficult to open an enquiry and the notion of disclosure (pre December 2010) might also be irrelevant?
              Exempt from the Loan Charge. Might be difficult to open an enquiry but that may not stop HMRC is my understanding.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by Virtualguy View Post
                Could I ask a question to seek a little clarity. If I am someone who took out loans prior to December 2010, and had no open enquiry, should I presume that I will be exempt from the loan charge Yes, and from submitting any further information on tax returns Yes? Presumably, it would be difficult to open an enquiry and the notion of disclosure (pre December 2010) might also be irrelevant Yes*?
                * Nothing is ever 100% cast iron guaranteed (especially when you're dealing with HMRC) but I think you are pretty much in the clear.
                Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Wondering if anybody can help advise me as I am a bit confused about a few things.
                  I got a letter this morning from HMRC 'Changes to the loan charge following the independent review - what this means for you'

                  I was in a loan scheme (which I didn't realise sadly until all this came up) from 2015-2019. I never previously had to do SATR as was umbrella (or so I thought).
                  Up until recently I had not done anything with regards to declaring, I got a letter from HMRC in Dec asking for SATR for 2015-16 and 2016-17.
                  So last week after working out all the loan figures etc I decided I would declare them and pay the tax and get this mess sorted.

                  So I am looking to do online and am awaiting activation code to do online.
                  Last week I also got a SATR request for 2018-19.

                  I called HMRC and said I have had nothing through for 2017-18 and wanted to sort that too so I could be clean.
                  They said they can't send me a letter and just wait to see if I get a letter. Now I don't want to just wait I want to sort it, so any ideas how I can go about declaring that year too ?

                  Also in this letter I got this morning it says 'if we have asked you to submit a 2018-19 SATR please include a loan balance amount'.
                  So are they expecting me to declare all of the loan balance ie all years ? but this is confusing as they are asking me to also do individual years ? and if was the whole amount of all years won't this tax it as 1 lump sum instead of individual years which will be a higher tax rate than I would have been taxed ? (ie under £40K each year)
                  Last edited by Confusedetc; 27 January 2020, 19:02.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by Confusedetc View Post
                    Up until recently I had not done anything with regards to declaring, I got a letter from HMRC in Dec asking for SATR for 2015-16 and 2016-17.
                    So last week after working out all the loan figures etc I decided I would declare them and pay the tax and get this mess sorted.
                    I'm not sure that just declaring the loans on the SATRs will get this sorted.

                    Unless you settle, you may be subject to the Loan Charge. I'm guessing that's why HMRC are telling you that you need to provide a "loan balance" on the 2018/19 SATR. This is the tax year in which the loan charge is due.

                    I honestly wouldn't recommend that you try and do this yourself.
                    Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
                      I'm not sure that just declaring the loans on the SATRs will get this sorted.

                      Unless you settle, you may be subject to the Loan Charge. I'm guessing that's why HMRC are telling you that you need to provide a "loan balance" on the 2018/19 SATR. This is the tax year in which the loan charge is due.

                      I honestly wouldn't recommend that you try and do this yourself.
                      +1

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