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Loan Assignment Association against FS Capital

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    Loan Assignment Association against FS Capital

    Hello, I stumbled across this forum which has been a godsend in giving me more information and providing some comfort that i'm not on my own.

    I too was heavily encouraged to sign up by my accountant and joined the Cirus / Hyrax schemes without fully understanding the potential implications, which are becoming horribly clear now FS Capital have taken assignment of my loans.

    Thankfully I was only in it for just over a year, but was still paid an amount of loans that to attempt to repay now would have a massive financial impact, wiping out family savings and then some. On top of the years of uncertainty regarding HMRC action this is taking a serious toll on my mental health - to have agreed a settlement figure and negotiated a payment plan, to then have it snatched away at the 11th hour just as I was in the process of getting the loans written off is a cruel twist that I have to say has hit me hard.

    However, all I can do is dig deep and resolve to prepare as best I can, get the best advice possible and hope that there's enough of us to take these opportunist shysters head on. A few quick questions that keep running through my head though:

    1. Worst case scenario, if I had to pay off the loans in full, does this make the HMRC settlement disappear i.e. it was a loan and not income, so can't pay it off and pay tax on it? On the basis that any litigation could take years (at least until after the settlement is due/loan charge deadline), could there be a scenario where tax is paid to HMRC first and the loan won’t be written off, and is ultimately due creating a potential liability on both fronts?

    2. The company (Peak Performance) linked to my Accountants is forming a Loan Assignment Association with various lawyers to challenge FS Capital - this is undoubtedly a good idea as per the other ones mentioned elsewhere on here (WTT & ETC). If they're all potentially taking action against the same company - FS Capital - wouldn't it make sense to join forces (they've indicated they expect to get well over the 200+ members to proceed). Also, how clear are the relative merits of choosing one over the other?

    Lots more questions, but joining forces with a wider group is the top of my list at the moment. Any info or guidance hugely appreciated and aware a number of these points have been raised on similar threads, so please feel free to merge.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by RH21; 25 February 2020, 20:37.

    #2
    Originally posted by RH21 View Post
    Hello, I stumbled across this forum which has been a godsend in giving me more information and providing some comfort that i'm not on my own.

    I too was heavily encouraged to sign up by my accountant and joined the Cirus / Hyrax schemes without fully understanding the potential implications, which are becoming horribly clear now FS Capital have taken assignment of my loans.

    Thankfully I was only in it for just over a year, but was still paid an amount of loans that to attempt to repay now would have a massive financial impact, wiping out family savings and then some. On top of the years of uncertainty regarding HMRC action this is taking a serious toll on my mental health - to have agreed a settlement figure and negotiated a payment plan, to then have it snatched away at the 11th hour just as I was in the process of getting the loans written off is a cruel twist that I have to say has hit me hard.

    However, all I can do is dig deep and resolve to prepare as best I can, get the best advice possible and hope that there's enough of us to take these opportunist shysters head on. A few quick questions that keep running through my head though:

    1. Worst case scenario, if I had to pay off the loans in full, does this make the HMRC settlement disappear i.e. it was a loan and not income, so can't pay it off and pay tax on it? On the basis that any litigation could take years (at least until after the settlement is due/loan charge deadline), could there be a scenario where tax is paid to HMRC first and the loan won’t be written off, and is ultimately due creating a potential liability on both fronts?

    2. The company (Peak Performance) linked to my Accountants is forming a Loan Assignment Association with various lawyers to challenge FS Capital - this is undoubtedly a good idea as per the other ones mentioned elsewhere on here (WTT & ETC). If they're all potentially taking action against the same company, wouldn't it make sense to join forces (they've indicated they expect to get well over the 200+ members to proceed). Also, how clear are the relative merits of choosing one over the other?

    Lots more questions, but joining forces with a wider group is the top of my list at the moment. Any info or guidance hugely appreciated and aware a number of these points have been raised on similar threads, so please feel free to merge.

    Thanks in advance.
    Too many differences, and interests, to make a unified approach possible IMV.
    Last edited by dammit chloe; 25 February 2020, 20:30.

    Comment


      #3
      Would I be right in recalling that Peak Performance were the promoter for the Cirus/Hyrax schemes?

      If so, it's a bloody strange turn of events that they're now launching a legal action against a remnant of their own schemes. Presumably, they are charging the users a fee for this action?
      Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
        Would I be right in recalling that Peak Performance were the promoter for the Cirus/Hyrax schemes?

        If so, it's a bloody strange turn of events that they're now launching a legal action against a remnant of their own schemes. Presumably, they are charging the users a fee for this action?
        With regard to Hyrax - "Peak Performance Solutions" and "Peak Performance Head Office Solutions Limited" were not a "promoter" in the very technical DOTAS tax definition (s307). But I think the tribunal did say that they"promoted the arrangements in the colloquial sense by advertising them".

        HMRC wins GBP40 million battle against tax avoidance promoters - GOV.UK

        From a personal perspective, I would agree that this seems quite strange.

        Comment


          #5
          You almost couldn't make this up

          Company A sells users a scheme.

          The scheme fails and users have to pay tax on it.

          Company B acquires part of the original scheme. Then hires a firm of debt chasing lawyers to demand interest, loan repayment from users.

          Company A launches a legal action against company B, to resist the demands, and charges users fees for participating.

          Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
            Company A sells users a scheme.

            The scheme fails and users have to pay tax on it.

            Company B acquires part of the original scheme. Then hires a firm of debt chasing lawyers to demand interest, loan repayment from users.

            Company A launches a legal action against company B, to resist the demands, and charges users fees for participating.

            It appears you can make it up ☹️

            Fully agree that this is a car crash from all angles and it’s the little guy that gets shafted (they had also run a monthly subscription service to provide support and info on legally fighting the loan charge, which I’d avoided for that very point).

            Regardless of how we got here, I’m just desperate to make it go away - it’s dominated my life for the last 3 years+ and I had managed to negotiate a settlement with HMRC that was workable.

            Unless it’s the most elaborate con going I believe their (Peak Performance) intention and commitment to challenging FS Capital in the courts if need be, however a few of the questions I’ve got are:
            • Assuming other groups will be taking them on, will any negotiated agreement by said group only apply to their members?
            • If so, can you join more than one group to maximise your chances of a favourable agreement to write off the loans?
            • If there are multiple groups fighting FS Capital why can’t they pool resources and join forces - surely the similarities outweigh the differences?

            As I said, my focus is on getting the best outcome and resolution from here and while I am intending to speak to the other groups any thoughts on the above much appreciated. Thanks again.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by RH21 View Post
              • If there are multiple groups fighting FS Capital why can’t they pool resources and join forces - surely the similarities outweigh the differences?
              Sounds sensible to me.
              Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by RH21 View Post

                On top of the years of uncertainty regarding HMRC action this is taking a serious toll on my mental health - to have agreed a settlement figure and negotiated a payment plan, to then have it snatched away at the 11th hour Not true. Settlement was suspended whilst the loan charge review was underway but is now up and running again. Contact HMRC and ask them to proceed.

                1. Worst case scenario, if I had to pay off the loans in full, does this make the HMRC settlement disappear i.e. it was a loan and not income, so can't pay it off and pay tax on it? Unfortunately not. HMRC regard the payments made to you as taxable income at the time they were paid. No amount of subsequent repayment or action can charge that.
                On the basis that any litigation could take years (at least until after the settlement is due/loan charge deadline), could there be a scenario where tax is paid to HMRC first and the loan won’t be written off, and is ultimately due creating a potential liability on both fronts? There is NO correlation between the tax situation and the loan write off/repayment. HMRC is NOT a party to the loan agreement and cannot influence any of the rights and obligations there.

                2. If they're all potentially taking action against the same company - FS Capital - wouldn't it make sense to join forces I suspect that different strategies may be deployed depending on whether each of these parties has any interest in protecting things they may have done in the past, information they hold now, strategies for dealing with the tax (or advising users to settle) or perhaps a dozen other motives.
                Also, how clear are the relative merits of choosing one over the other? This is subjective. I suggest that you need to speak to each and make a judgement.

                Thanks in advance.
                Please see above.

                From our (WTT) perspective, we're looking to balance cost, "success" and time.

                Taking legal action is certainly on the agenda, but we are also very well aware that some of this may have to be against parties who are not within the UK, making any such action potentially tricky and expensive. Not impossible, but not something to rush into without an appreciation of the consequences.

                I have no idea what strategy the other parties have nor whether they are stand alone, i.e. do not include the prospect of further tax liabilities, or integrated with some tax actions (such as perhaps settlement). You have to speak with them all and make a judgement.
                Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

                (No, me neither).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by webberg View Post
                  Please see above.

                  From our (WTT) perspective, we're looking to balance cost, "success" and time.

                  Taking legal action is certainly on the agenda, but we are also very well aware that some of this may have to be against parties who are not within the UK, making any such action potentially tricky and expensive. Not impossible, but not something to rush into without an appreciation of the consequences.

                  I have no idea what strategy the other parties have nor whether they are stand alone, i.e. do not include the prospect of further tax liabilities, or integrated with some tax actions (such as perhaps settlement). You have to speak with them all and make a judgement.
                  Thank you - i'll be in touch to discuss. What's the best route to get to speak to yourself - just an initial enquiry via the form on the WTT website?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by RH21 View Post
                    Thank you - i'll be in touch to discuss. What's the best route to get to speak to yourself - just an initial enquiry via the form on the WTT website?
                    Easiest to call us and make an appointment to speak. First conversation is free.
                    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

                    (No, me neither).

                    Comment

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