Track the Finance Bill 2020-21 here

[webberg]

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I get the feeling you're quite defensive about all this. I hope you're not leading your members over a cliff.

I do not consider for a moment that correcting obvious errors or pointing out to people some of the possible consequences that may happen if certain paths are taken can in any manner be regarded as "defensive".

Clearly however I am misreading the motives of others here and it might be best of this was my last word on this particular subject.

[webberg]

Question to clarify: Is the disclosure for the loan amounts drawn after 9 December 2010, and so if entered the scheme pre December 2010, I only disclose the amounts that were paid after this date, not those before it from the same scheme?

I'm not sure you have grasped the issue here (or I have misunderstood - in which case apologies in advance).

Disclosure in the context of the original post was referring to whether you had made adequate disclosure of a scheme/values to HMRC in any return or other document that was submitted to the agency before the last filing deadline for the 2015/16 tax year. In other words an historic disclosure.

Your post suggests that you are thinking about disclosure for the purposes of the loan charge to be made in the 2018/19 tax return (due date 30/9/20)?

Very different things.

[starstruck]

Clearly however I am misreading the motives of others here and it might be best of this was my last word on this particular subject.

DealOrNoDeal we get what you are saying .... we've been here many times before, it's a conversation that just goes on and on.

"Beware of WTT and others because they are advising you to do something (i.e. to not declare the loans on your tax return and instead make a white space entry saying you don't believe the LC applies, which you then hope to fight in court) that has potentially huge negative consequences, such as big penalties"

I totally agree, personally I think it's all going to end in disaster for BG clients, when the fight finally comes to an end and the penalties and interest have racked up - I assume it will be bankruptcy for most.

But the BG people that follow this route are either to naive or just too desperate. For them it is a risk worth taking and you'll never get webberg to come out and say "Sure, what we are advising clients carries great risk and might land you in tonnes more poo than you are now" - although I was surprised when he almost seemed to be saying that here: https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2788351

BG members need hope, WTT provides that hope. WTT wants income the BG members provide that income. Others look on and think "don't do it" but it's their decision to make. WTT loves the ongoing conversation on here because it drives more clients to them and the wheel turns on and on....

[luxCon]

I'm not sure you have grasped the issue here (or I have misunderstood - in which case apologies in advance).

Disclosure in the context of the original post was referring to whether you had made adequate disclosure of a scheme/values to HMRC in any return or other document that was submitted to the agency before the last filing deadline for the 2015/16 tax year. In other words an historic disclosure.

Your post suggests that you are thinking about disclosure for the purposes of the loan charge to be made in the 2018/19 tax return (due date 30/9/20)?

Very different things.

My error, I was thinking of disclosing the outstand loan amount due on 30/09/2020. Am I correct I would need to provide the amounts drawn after 9 Dec 2010, and any earlier payments prior to this date from the same scheme dies not need to be included?

[webberg]

DealOrNoDeal we get what you are saying .... we've been here many times before, it's a conversation that just goes on and on.

I see.

I thought that perhaps some real facts, common sense and a realistic view of the situation was preferable to some of the frankly false and misleading statements being made.

Shows what I know.

Good luck.

[dammit chloe]

I see.

I thought that perhaps some real facts, common sense and a realistic view of the situation was preferable to some of the frankly false and misleading statements being made.

Shows what I know.

Good luck.

The trouble is that there are no real facts or common sense. The BG strategy may work but the strategy and advice has morphed over the 5 years or so it has been running. I myself have received vastly different advice from 2 of their senior people about a month apart. One didn't understand why the other had advised me that I didn't need to declare ( long and short of it, legally I did have to ).

So it's all very well harrumphing about real and truthful facts, common sense etc but I have no idea where one would find it amongst the tax advisor circles these days. They certainly can't agree with each other, in fact they are miles apart.

I am probably one of the few who have benefitted from the FB changes to the point HMRC have written to me saying they will no longer contact me on my loans and the matter is closed ( dubious IHT aside ). I still, where possible, would like to help those who are not out of the net yet but I honestly couldn't tell them who can be trusted.

[starstruck]

I see.

I thought that perhaps some real facts, common sense and a realistic view of the situation was preferable to some of the frankly false and misleading statements being made.

Shows what I know.

Good luck.

I don't need any luck thanks.

You probably believe your own hype, but the reality is you're only here to drum up more business - you're not here for facts, common sense or realism - or altruism! You try to blind with science, but by your own admission just a few posts above, you have absolutely no idea if your plan will actually work and for you it doesn't have to, you get paid no matter what. I remember years ago arguing with you about settlement when you were peddling that "settlement is not really and end to it all". Your posts are all smoke and mirrors and often designed to create uncertainly and worry to drive people into the arms of you - a 'trusted advisor'. It's why you often throw in 'seek professional advice'. I just get so tired of reading it all.

[DealorNoDeal]

starstuck (and dammit chloe),

Thank you for opening my eyes, and saving me wasting my time.

[DealorNoDeal]

The Hamilton Rose "solution" - sorry I have no idea as to what it is or where it sits on whatever subjective scale of risk you are using.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this surprising?

[dammit chloe]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this surprising?

Yes. They ought to know. I am sure many of their clients are aware of that option so why wouldn't they be. Surely questions have been asked.