Determinations under regulations 80 (AML) Determinations under regulations 80 (AML)
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    4

    Default Determinations under regulations 80 (AML)

    Hi Everyone,

    I have had a notice from HMRC as determinations under regulations 80 Income Tax (Pay As you Earn) regulations 2003 in relation to the company use of services from third party. The year is for 2015/16. Few questions:
    a) Does this letter mean I have received IR35 judgement in disguise?
    b) What is the correct procedure to appeal if I disagree?
    c) If I appeal myself and refile Self assessment for the same year will that be sufficient?
    d) Will refilling the self assessment for applicable year mean that I am accepting an Inside IR 35 judgement ?

    I have an accountant who thinks even though it is incorrect I should just pay and close the case. What does that exposes me to I do not know.
    I have asked to re-prepare the questioned financial year self assessment. Will that suffice. Accountant say I do that on my own risk and I write a letter myself attaching the new Self Assessment return filled.
    Anyone with same experience and outcomes/directions?
    Please help.
    Last edited by cojak; 27th March 2020 at 14:55. Reason: Added AML to title.

  2. #2

    Godlike

    ladymuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    8,580

    Default

    Do you have any investigation insurances with IPSE or Qdos? I'm guessing not...

    Sounds like you've not paid PAYE properly for the given year but I don't think (IANAA) is directly related to an IR35 enquiry but it could open up one.

    I'd take legal advice (hence why the insurances are so useful) rather than ask your accountant.

  3. #3

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    Do you have any investigation insurances with IPSE or Qdos? I'm guessing not...

    Sounds like you've not paid PAYE properly for the given year but I don't think (IANAA) is directly related to an IR35 enquiry but it could open up one.

    I'd take legal advice (hence why the insurances are so useful) rather than ask your accountant.
    Many Thanks. I got insurance of IR35 protect from kingsbridge but letter is dated a few days earlier than the insurance start date.
    Not sure they would help in regulation 80 declaration anyways.
    I was with AML in the first year in my contracting....In my understanding PAYE as employer opens company for IR35...I was thinking of raising my hand , refilling self assessment , declare every penny i got from AML as salary from AML, pay more than what they have asked for by SA refilling and close this matter with HMRC myself.

    From all the frantic reading i have been doing on this subject, I gathered that as the employer is offshore company HMRC cannot extract money from them but shifted the liability to another company here, if that company cannot pay then section 81 will make the liability to me ...
    I am thinking of paying from my personal pocket and eating grass for rest of the year.

    A legal advice here is most welcome.

  4. #4

    Some things in Moderation

    cojak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Look to your right...
    Posts
    20,372

    Default

    AML you say?

    Oh Dear

    I think that I need to move this to the HMRC Scheme Enquiries forum...
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

  5. #5

    Godlike

    ladymuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    8,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    AML you say?

    Oh Dear

    I think that I need to move this to the HMRC Scheme Enquiries forum...
    That explains it

  6. #6

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    That explains it
    Any advice?

  7. #7

    Some things in Moderation

    cojak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Look to your right...
    Posts
    20,372

    Default

    People will come along shortly who are far more experienced than we are to offer advice on this scheme.

    The only advice we have is to read all of the AML threads in this forum and go to a proper tax advisor to help you - your accountant won’t have the knowledge for this.
    "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
    - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

  8. #8

    Super poster


    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    WTT Consulting Ltd - London and online
    Posts
    3,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by archac View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I have had a notice from HMRC as determinations under regulations 80 Income Tax (Pay As you Earn) regulations 2003 in relation to the company use of services from third party. The year is for 2015/16. Few questions:
    a) Does this letter mean I have received IR35 judgement in disguise?
    b) What is the correct procedure to appeal if I disagree?
    c) If I appeal myself and refile Self assessment for the same year will that be sufficient?
    d) Will refilling the self assessment for applicable year mean that I am accepting an Inside IR 35 judgement ?

    I have an accountant who thinks even though it is incorrect I should just pay and close the case. What does that exposes me to I do not know.
    I have asked to re-prepare the questioned financial year self assessment. Will that suffice. Accountant say I do that on my own risk and I write a letter myself attaching the new Self Assessment return filled.
    Anyone with same experience and outcomes/directions?
    Please help.
    First, you have not had a Reg 80. A Reg 80 is issued to an employer. It is provoked by HMRC thinking that the employer had made payments of remuneration to employees which have not been subjected to PAYE.

    It has no connection with IR35. The rules in IR35 are to determine whether you are to be taxed as an employee or not.

    My guess is that you used the AML/SmartPay arrangement in which your own company (PSC) invoiced an end client, received the money, passed on most of it to SmartPay and then received from Knox House Trust a sum of money, paid to you personally.

    If so, HMRC's view is that the payment of money from your PSC to SmartPay was in reality a payment of remuneration to you. That should have been subjected to tax and was not. Hence HMRC is trying to make that good by issuing the assessment.

    You can (and should) appeal within 30 days. If you do that and ask for the tax to be postponed then your PSC will need to establish that either the payments were NOT remuneration (to you) or that the money was remuneration was was paid to you by Smartpay or an agency or perhaps even your end client. Most likely this is done by discussing matters with HMRC for perhaps 12/18 months and then litigating.

    Failure to do either of the above will result in your PSC being liable for the assessment. If the PSC is unable to pay, chances are HMRC will seek to transfer the liability to you. Whether that is possible or not can depend on a number of factors.

    Amending your SATR is unnecessary and likely to be ineffective.

    Go and get some advice from somebody with some experience and who is not biased, i.e connected with AML/SmartPay who may well be conflicted.
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

  9. #9

    Fingers like lightning

    DealorNoDeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    930

    Default

    If it was me, I'd lodge an appeal just to "park" this until the Corona emergency is over.

    All you need to do is write back to them and say:

    a) you disagree with their decision
    b) that you wish to appeal against the decision, and
    c) you request that any tax, nics and interest be postponed

  10. #10

    Super poster


    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    WTT Consulting Ltd - London and online
    Posts
    3,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
    If it was me, I'd lodge an appeal just to "park" this until the Corona emergency is over.

    All you need to do is write back to them and say:

    a) you disagree with their decision
    b) that you wish to appeal against the decision, and
    c) you request that any tax, nics and interest be postponed
    You should also include a reason why you think the assessment is incorrect.

    There are a number to choose from.

    Perhaps "I do not believe that the [PSC] is an employer for the purposes of PAYE.

    (Pedant corner - you cannot ask for postponement of interest because the assessment does not include interest. That only arises if the amount demanded is not paid on time.)
    Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

    (No, me neither).

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •