Loans being demanded - a summary

[webberg]

hi Webberg. The statute of limitation laws vary quite significantly between Scotland and England.. I'm sure there are contractors from all parts of the UK who are following this forum so it's probably worth highlighting this point ? I haven't yet managed to clarify if the demands can be rejected in Scotland under the terms of the statute (i.e. after 5 years of no engagement between parties) but will keep the forum posted.

I have no control over what is posted by whom, so as long as it's relevant and helpful, I see no reason why you should not post as you see fit.

[mav2010]

For a debt to be statute barred after the five-year timescale in Scotland, the following must also apply during this time period:
The debt has not been acknowledged by the debtor
There are no decrees on the debt
The creditor has not made contact about the amount owed
No repayments have been made

[webberg]

For a debt to be statute barred after the five-year timescale in Scotland, the following must also apply during this time period:
The debt has not been acknowledged by the debtor what does this mean?
There are no decrees on the debt
The creditor has not made contact about the amount owed
No repayments have been made

Is it the case that the period begins when the first instance of possible repayment arises?

[Iliketax]

“If after the appropriate date

It would probably be interesting to know what Schedule 2 said the "appropriate date" was.

[webberg]

Montpelier

More recently Montpelier are claiming that as loans from earlier schemes have no escaped all forms of taxation because a) HMRC failed to open and enquiry and b) the loan charge for periods pre December 2010 has fallen away, they are now entitled to a success fee payable int he form of a loan that was allegedly made to individuals in 2009 and 2010. Again, put Montpelier to proof and challenge the various claim forms they are making use of as we think they are flawed.

I know that updating my own post is a bit gauche, but I think it's justified.

MTM Consultants have issued demands from their new head office. These demands relate to a success fee that is dressed as a loan (perhaps to avoid MTM being in receipt of taxable income?) and which we suspect many people are wholly unaware of having "drawn" and now "owe" to MTM.

Worse, these demands are pitched as threats of bankruptcy proceedings within days.

Nice.

Action here MUST be taken. The forms used to make the claim have a number of instructions as to what you need to do. Beware that possibly the forms used are incorrect anyway, but no matter -

DO NOT IGNORE THESE DEMANDS

We (WTT) have prepared counterclaims and defences for our clients and that is being executed now.

The formal responses do need to be made within a given time limit so keep this in mind.

The basis of the claim is, in our opinion, flawed and certainly can be challenged but it has to be done properly and in time.

[piebaps]

Due in Court in the IOM tomorrow. No idea of the nature of the action.

https://www.courts.im/media/2431/chancery.pdf

Keep watching for the judgement.

[woolyhatman]

It would probably be interesting to know what Schedule 2 said the "appropriate date" was.

Extract from Schedule 2:

(2)The appropriate date in relation to an obligation to which this paragraph applies is—

(a)if the contract contains a stipulation which makes provision with respect to the date on or before which repayment of the sum or, as the case may be, the part thereof is to be made, the date on or before which, in terms of that stipulation, the sum or part thereof is to be repaid;

EXTRACT FROM IQ Loans Contract in December 2012

2.2. Interest shall be due and payable annually on or before the 5th April under this Loan Facility. Payment shall be made by the way of a transfer of funds to the Employer in a form approved by the Employer or by deduction

.. by my reckoning the interest was due on April 5th 2013 as per the contract terms, but hey-ho one for the lawyers to argue ?

[woolyhatman]

Myth busting

Statute of limitations - there is an often stated argument that if their is no claim for repayment within 6 years from the loan agreement being made or 6 years from the last drawdown, then repayment claims lapse. This is not true. The statute of limitations (usually) begins when a claim is made under the agreement. It lapses 6 years later if the claim is resisted and the claimant makes no efforts to collect on their rights.

Broadly speaking , if the contract stipulates a date on which the debt becomes due in whole or in part , that is (usually) the date from when the statute period commences .

That is to say, the date of the first claim "made under the agreement" is used in the absence of a contracted date.

(NB This is as per Schedule 2 of the statutes act in Scotland and I don't know if it's the same for the rest of the UK - but it wouldn't take long to find out).

Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973


In the case of the schemes that were operated by IQ ,the terms of the contract specified when the payment of interest was due. (extract from a loan agreement in 2012 as below).

2.2. Interest shall be due and payable annually on or before the 5th April under this Loan Facility. Payment shall be made by the way of a transfer of funds to the Employer in a form approved by the Employer.... etc

Under these terms , the interest on a loan made in December 2012 would become due on 5th April 2013 .(it can be demonstrated from the recent demands that interest became due on 5th April of the subsequent financial year.)

Any demand arising in 2020 for interest due 7 years prior should rightfully be challenged under the terms of the statute .

[Iliketax]

Extract from Schedule 2:

(2)The appropriate date in relation to an obligation to which this paragraph applies is—

(a)if the contract contains a stipulation which makes provision with respect to the date on or before which repayment of the sum or, as the case may be, the part thereof is to be made, the date on or before which, in terms of that stipulation, the sum or part thereof is to be repaid;

EXTRACT FROM IQ Loans Contract in December 2012

2.2. Interest shall be due and payable annually on or before the 5th April under this Loan Facility. Payment shall be made by the way of a transfer of funds to the Employer in a form approved by the Employer or by deduction

.. by my reckoning the interest was due on April 5th 2013 as per the contract terms, but hey-ho one for the lawyers to argue ?

Is there a difference between "repayment" of a loan and paying interest on a loan?

[woolyhatman]

Is there a difference between "repayment" of a loan and paying interest on a loan?

Quite possibly, however (in my case) Felicitas/GS are demanding payment for the outstanding interest and not the loan itself. yet.

There is an "agreed" due date for the interest payment (5/4/13 in my example) and there is also a contractual date which relates to payment of the loan - my 70th birthday - which is a good bit off.

(Oops. I've just noticed that they have the right to call in the capital at any time with a month's notice. which is a lot sooner than my 70th Birthday)