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The loan charge is NOT a settlement "option"

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    #21
    Originally posted by lowpaidworker View Post
    I certainly have the name, exact date and time of the call.
    Trust me that won't be enough - get it in writing... That deal / commitment is only worth the paper it is written on
    Last edited by eek; 28 September 2020, 09:50.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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      #22
      Originally posted by lowpaidworker View Post
      I certainly have the name, exact date and time of the call.
      I also previously have had similar confirmation from HMRC including date and time of call - the gentleman said as long as the loan balance is declared correctly on the SATR, they will eventually close the case once they do their checks that the loan balance was correctly declared. I did get an email from them confirming so also but I was told this won’t mean anything if HMRC want to challenge. I know there is much debate on this this opinion by some members of this forum so I don’t know which way to go!
      Last edited by Ozcontractor; 28 September 2020, 09:52.

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        #23
        Originally posted by Ozcontractor View Post
        I also previously have had similar confirmation from HMRC including date and time of call - as long as the loan balance is declared correctly on the SATR, they will eventually close the case once they do their checks that the loan balance was correctly declared. And then even an email from them confirming so. However this is very much against the opinion of some members of this forum so I don’t know which way to go!
        I'm just waiting for my letter/mail as i asked and they confirmed they would write to very shortly. I will go back on this and confirm that once i have declared my loans on the SATR and agreed a payment that is full and final and that these years are now closed. I am glad someone else has had a similar experience.

        I know this might be a case of someone junior making inaccurate statements but surely even the most junior of HMRC staff should know this.
        Last edited by lowpaidworker; 28 September 2020, 09:54.

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          #24
          Should the question not be "will you issue a closure notice stating no further tax is owed?" That is what answer I would want in writing.
          STRENGTH - "A river cuts through rock not because of its power, but its persistence"

          Comment


            #25
            We have been advised that HMRC has agreed that if the loan charge is paid they will close all enquiries by perhaps a dozen clients now.

            Those with written "evidence" from HMRC have sent that to us.

            In every case the words used by HMRC do NOT say that they will stop or give up enquiries.

            I'd be delighted if I could get my hands on incontrovertible evidence but to date, I have not.
            Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.

            (No, me neither).

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by webberg View Post
              We have been advised that HMRC has agreed that if the loan charge is paid they will close all enquiries by perhaps a dozen clients now.

              Those with written "evidence" from HMRC have sent that to us.

              In every case the words used by HMRC do NOT say that they will stop or give up enquiries.

              I'd be delighted if I could get my hands on incontrovertible evidence but to date, I have not.
              Thanks for the above. Can you then clarify the below extract from the HMRC website then? Does the second sentence imply that as long as you've declared the correct loan balances on your SATR, HMRC will not be able to tax you again on the same loan balance which you've declared on your SATR - effectively having to close the open enquiry down? In this case, assume there is an open year and the settlement offer would end up being more than paying the loan charge.

              As well as returning and paying the loan charge, you’ll still have to settle any enquiries into the DR schemes or take your case to a tribunal or court if you are unwilling to settle. Where you have paid the Loan charge, there’s a double tax rule to ensure you do not have to pay tax twice on the same income.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by Ozcontractor View Post
                Thanks for the above. Can you then clarify the below extract from the HMRC website then? Does the second sentence imply that as long as you've declared the correct loan balances on your SATR, HMRC will not be able to tax you again on the same loan balance which you've declared on your SATR - effectively having to close the open enquiry down? In this case, assume there is an open year and the settlement offer would end up being more than paying the loan charge.

                As well as returning and paying the loan charge, you’ll still have to settle any enquiries into the DR schemes or take your case to a tribunal or court if you are unwilling to settle. Where you have paid the Loan charge, there’s a double tax rule to ensure you do not have to pay tax twice on the same income.
                If the settlement charge is more you will need to pay the extra.

                If the settlement charge is less HMRC won't and do not need to refund you the overpayment.

                The loan charge doesn't settle anything - it's just another advanced payment approach...
                merely at clientco for the entertainment

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by eek View Post
                  If the settlement charge is more you will need to pay the extra.

                  If the settlement charge is less HMRC won't and do not need to refund you the overpayment.

                  The loan charge doesn't settle anything - it's just another advanced payment approach...
                  Thanks - and if there is no enquiry into a tax year and I voluntary declare the loan amounts and pay the loan charge, is that the end of that issue?

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by Ozcontractor View Post
                    Thanks - and if there is no enquiry into a tax year and I voluntary declare the loan amounts and pay the loan charge, is that the end of that issue?
                    If no enquiry and HMRC cannot open an enquiry into that year then the year is closed. And you can follow this logic below.

                    Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
                    I'm assuming most people here can read code.

                    Code:
                    if (year < 2010) {
                       the loan charge doesn't apply;
                       if (year is closed) you're in the clear; nothing to pay;
                       if (year is open) at some point in the future, you may either have to settle or contest
                          the tax liability at a tribunal;  /* "future" could be several years */
                    }
                    
                    if (year > 2010) {
                       the loan charge does apply;
                       if (settlement works out cheaper than loan charge) then settle;
                       if (loan charge works out cheaper than settlement) {
                          if (year is closed) you can pay the loan charge, and that's the end of the matter;
                          if (year is open) you can pay the loan charge, but at some point in the future you may
                             have to settle and pay the shortfall (settlement minus loan charge);  /* "future" could be many years */
                       }
                    }
                    merely at clientco for the entertainment

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by eek View Post
                      If no enquiry and HMRC cannot open an enquiry into that year then the year is closed. And you can follow this logic below.
                      Not forgetting the following with regards to closed years with regards to the Loan Charge, so tax payer should still do some due dilligence:

                      the loan charge will not apply to outstanding loans made in any tax years before 6 April 2016 where a reasonable disclosure of the use of the tax avoidance scheme was made to HMRC and HMRC did not take action (for example, opening an enquiry into an Income Tax return)

                      Disguised remuneration: guidance following the outcome of the independent loan charge review - GOV.UK
                      STRENGTH - "A river cuts through rock not because of its power, but its persistence"

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